Air Force: 'This is basically the same technology that we've been using since the Civil War'
Article Source: msnbc.com
from:msnbc.comA call for a 21st-century battlefield stretcher
Seeded on Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:38 PM EST (msnbc.com)
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The more mult-purpose a single piece of equipment attains, the bulkier and less likely the piece of equipment will be effective.
If the stretcher is to be folded into a hand sized unit, then the constraints of dimensional physics limit the inherent ability of this unit to overcome physical limits, in other words, it could be compact and expansive, but there will be extreme limits on its ultimate functionality. Trade offs bud.
I am with you. High speed, low tech works.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I 100% disagree. If only one person needs to carry it that makes less targets. The system is outdated and I'm all for a updated system. I 100% doubt it would be more bulky than what a medic already carries. Get it done. Rather for money be spent on this than welfare for a 19 year old woman that has kids just to get welfare.
Ya, those I-phones have really gotten huge over the years. You definitely couldn't use something like light-weight titanium for something like this. That would just cost so much. Better soildiers die and then the government can pay some bare minimum to their families.
I disagree,sheepherder1, with if it ain't broken, don't fix it. I say this because we should always try to improve something no matter what. How do we know if we can use something more efficient if we do not try to improve it? That way of thinking just stops us from progressing. It is a gamble, but if we succeed, we have made something better than before and if we fail, well, we failed and still have the other thing. However, if we do not try, we will never know if something more efficient can work better. We should ALWAYS try to IMPROVE everything even if it is not BROKEN.
i think i may be able to build what they want but it wont quite fit into a shoe box, building, fixing and improving is what i do best and i can make them pretty cheaply as well and fit into a tube that's about 6 feet long by 6 inches wide and lighter as well if they want to ignore all the electrical junk they wanted in favor of being able to move faster in snow, water or land with helicopter hookups. if they ask me i can do it and ill do it quickly and cheaply.
K.I.S.S.
Keep It Simple Stupid !!!
i can do it and keep it simple and effective all they have to do is ask.
why not just install two little wheels on one end of the stretcher so they can get wheeled out?
That is what I was thinking also xsreamist. But larger wheels which snap in place, and could be just one in center. As far as heating and cooling forget it, to much to breakdown. Also, Wheel should or could be be small batt. or Solar Electric Motor driven.
not practicle
why not put a gas engine on it and a sulky so the rescuer doesn't have to walk either. the whole thing shouldn't weigh more than 50 or 75 pounds and you can carry it all day along with your 75 pound back pack and weapon and ammo.
That was exactly my thought! I observed a bumper sticker on a Naval Base that said,
"U.F.O.'s are real, the Air Force doesn't exist!!!! Great sticker!!!!!
Wow, a lot of people in here are so NEGATIVE. There is someone out there that WILL come up with the perfect design, and exactly what the Air Force is asking for. In the past, you would never think that you could defend a HubVee against an RPG. But now we can, cause someone out there found a way, and made it happen.......
Caskets ain't changed much either .
i could use the 15 thou but i would rather help our soldiers. seems like something more practicle would have been developed by now.
The Air Force was using this technology during the civil war ? The air corps is considerably older than I realized .
Balloon corps bud
You made me laugh.
Its long past due to make positive efforts and spend the money it takes to support our combat troops in any way needed. There should be no hesitation in supplying the best equipment for the wounded and their dedicated and competent rescuers.
The potential evacuee might even want or need to shoot at a potential threat, so don't cover um up.
Basically another stupid all in one concept.
love the concept.
Here are two stories I researched and wrote for discovery Military Channel. They may answer some questions.
http://military.discovery.com/technology/robots/heavy-ugv/bear.html
http://military.discovery.com/technology/robots/heavy-ugv/trauma-pod.html
This is what's available now
Maybe if we didn't start wars all over the world , we wouldn't need stretchers to bring out our wounded,eh? Peace loving USA, My ASS!
You, are an a$$#%&*!.....feel free to leave this country at anytime!
There are different types of war but the perfect war is no war at all. The United states is the only country to win the perfect war, with absolutely no loss of life in battle. We shut The USSR down with a Bluff and it worked! The "Star Wars" project wasn't even on paper when Reagan said "Go ahead Shoot off your nukes and we will destroy them with a laser from space before they leave their launch pads". The US saved countless of millions of lives and maybe the planet. Are you truly peace loving or do you like to cause controversy by insulting the country we know and love.
please feel free to leave!
I would not say we start them but we are playing the world police which we have to let go of.
@Kornorstone: I wouldn't say that... lest we forget Korea and Vietnam...
When I was in the A.F.we were trained to use the firemans carry method if no stretchers were avail. If it is an issue of neck or back injury, a one man appliance is not gonna work. (If it's not broke why try to fix).One more thing,when we went in to extract the wounded,we didn't do it by ourselves,we went in as a team.
Things have changed since you were last in the AF. Fireman's carry is fine for short moves. But we're talking tactical moves, movement by CSAR forces, including care underfire. Statics show many S.A.M.S. died because of time between care underfire and safe movement. This system will significantly reduce that time. Yes, what you were taught is broken, that's why they are trying to fix it.
Trauma Pod and Bear Robot are in theatre extraction units one gets the wounded out and the other cares and fixes the wound.
What the military needs to do is to send out this challenge to all the retired mechanical engineers in the country. Right now, I am thinking of man in Boston area that can build almost anything he sets his mind to. He developed the basic intravenous pump years ago, a medical device that controls precisely the drip of an IV, and counts every drop. It was brilliant, and he got not one iota credit for it. He also developed a better method of administering children's x rays and radiation treatment, because his own daughter was going through it. People like this man are great thinkers, and many of them are retired and would love the challenge of building a new stretcher for the military.
It's probably so those Special Forces sissies can lie around and butt sex each other
If our leaders would do a better job of keeping or troops out of harms way there won't be a need for this.
jgolds,most of us fought to FREEDOM of speech. that old get out of the usa if you dont agree with ME says we fought for what ? Peace is the best idea but since humans cant resist war, we need stretchers. What we have is the best ever designed,,Its called BROTHERS IN ARMS. MY BUDDY. what we have never had is ENOUGH MEDICS. Simple as that.the stretcher is second, Medics KNOW HOW to carry wounded on stretchers. BUT HEY we could design small helicopters for each man to carry. Ahh but the wounded soldier wants a MEDIC.
Walt, we have medics but unfortunately, a medic can't protect the wounded and himself. Our operators are trained and highly qualified to care for the wounded. What they don't have is multiple people to try and lift a wounded member while returning fire at the same time. That's why we need a streatcher that makes it easier.
How about a Volkswagon with air option.That should do it!
I spent 20 years in the military and have been retired for 7 years. I remember this issue about having a new stretcher being brought up when I first joined. So, nothing new, the government ignoring the needs of the military for over 27 years. I guess when enough people die they'll do something. Just like with Agent Orange being ignored until the soldiers were in their 70's. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, at least not until there's been enough deaths and complaints from families.
So how about that changing of the name of The Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America - that takes higher priority!!! You never know how many lives that may save by changing that name!!!
How about the Big Beaner Sea!
My father and his friend designed a stretcher during WWII. It worked like a wheel barrel except it had a bicycle tire that folded up. One man then could deliver a wounded soldier to a truck. Unfortunately, the military would not even consider it.
I think:
1. (Kevin, thank you for your USAF service.) I remember in the USA and USAF sometimes I had to do it myself, there was no one else!
2. Little pocket sized wheels don't work in mud, over rocky terrain, and in woods and grasses.
3. The Civil War stretcher was modified adding aluminum feet so I lift one end, he shoots targets in a 300 degree line of fire, while I run like the dickens. Low cost, disposable, low profile, simple mechanics, low weight, low loading height and low storage for bulk transport. I screwed to the stretcher: IV hangers, fluid and suction pumps, cardiac monitors, pulmonary drivers, and even an air cooled/heated humidified baby isolette all via thumbscrews!
But, if you want wheels, you still need to use the NATO litter bicycle wheels designed for one man rapid transports. The stretcher is driven by pulling or pushing with one hand under some conditions and covers various terrain very quickly. Easy set-up and breakdown, economical, simple maintenance, easily stored or bulk transported, readily available world-wide. It even becomes an operating table when the stand is deployed or an observation bed for an ICU.
4. Now I consider the lone rescuer: remove the old stretcher feet and add bent tubing to glide over stuff in its place. The sticks change to a cable down the center of 7 carbon fibre notched tubes, like the tubing on an ambu stretcher that runs around the perimeter of the bed or sets up like my dad's old hammock. A polymer sandwich slips over the patient and stretcher to protect the patient somewhat from incoming, but I can still access the patient for treatment. An air conditioner like the "Bear Hug" can be inflated later to cool or rewarm and I can keep all the same equipment attached with the same thumbscrews and pin-locks. Cabling can be attached like stokes baskets for cable rescue up a ravine or off a compromised vessel. It will fit a Hummer, Blackhawk, Daulphine, C9 or an AirBus!
Exactly why a Volkswagon is right for the job!
The price would have to be 'reasonable'??? Since when has anything the military spent $ on been reasonable... come on now. And since when has price ever been a consideration for what they buy. Remember the $400 toilet seat and $500 hammer? Our military machine is a never ending black hole which sucks the country's resources further and further. The answer lies in not starting the wars to begin with. Yes, there are problems all over the world, but bankrupting ourselves for the sake of "saving" everyone and promoting regime change where it benefits us is not working.
I can appreciate that they want to be able to have a device that a single soldier can handle with an injured man. But I don't know. I read the rest of what they want the stretcher to do and I have serious reservations. Actually what came to mind was a cartoon showing a 4' ladder that was OSHA approved. If you haven't seen it I can't describe it, but believe me with all the safety features of the ladder it just wasn't functional anymore. That is what I believe will ultimately happen to the stretcher design.
KISS. Keep it simple stupid. We all know that acronym. Smart bombs yes, but stretchers that they have described well, I can hardly wait to see it. Keep in mind that what we use now is basically a piece of canvass with two poles. That's all. It works fine. But what they ultimately design will probably cost about $10,000 and be prone to damage. Somethings really can't be improved on I don't think. Besides, we never used a stretcher in Vietnam. We always carried the guys to the chopper. Who is going to be carrying a stretcher around in the jungle? Not me.
all that criteria isnt possible...just coming up with a basic all terrain frame that wont sink in mud or sand is hard enough....
9.5 years active duty in these " guardian angel" squadrons and im pretty sure i know what works and will fit on an mh-60...
truth b said, the usaf needs to recruit female gymnasts, or those fitting that profile. small, strong, agile, and lightweight....to fly and leave rescue as it is....better yet, expand unmanned flight to combat fighters, and do away with the need to rescue anyone or anything...
no pj desires to haul some 220 lb. lt. or capt. out of harms way...make it the above, and even the smallest pj with a hangover can handle it...
Quatzy .......... Your suggestion #1) Females have no business in a combat unit or any unit close to combat area. #2) If you remove the cost of danger the easier it would be for a war to happen.
Maybe if conservatives stopped using the military as a replacement for Viagra we wouldn't need new stretchers.
Maybe if you weren't a bleeding leftwing NUTBAGGER, we wouldn't have a socialist muslim in the white house.
Horsey ......... as long as the socialist idiots of Europe can get the U.S. taxpayer to pay for being the police of the world and meet their own nations military expense needs so they can fund the fantasy socialist agendas nothing will change. That will not last to much longer though, the U.S. can not afford to pay 2/3s of a deficit caused by mandatory spending social welfare programs and meet other nations military expenses anymore. Clintons "new economy" has gutted the massive niddle-class tax base needed while it has resulted in an ever expanding entitlement mentality base.