Of course the images are kept ; how else would you be able to use them in court, in the unlikely event that they caught someone with something trying to get on a plane; the statement by Janet was hogwash, if you look at the RFP it stated that the images must be able to be kept in a electronic format !

If the scanner revealed that someone was carrying a bomb, gun, or knife.... why would you need the image? Wouldn't the actual bomb, gun, or knife be sufficient evidence?

They don't need to save these images.

The TSA has jackboots in its ranks... obviously not all of them, but they have their own version of the blue veil and it's despicable.

We'll be living the novel "1984" in another 10, maybe 20 years.

And when the Republican hacks install videocameras in out living rooms, they'll use the same brilliant logic used for the illegal wiretapping debate;

"WELL IF YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, WHAT'S THE BIG DEAL?!"

Personally, I travel using commercial airlines all the time and this isn't as big a deal as it is being made out to be. These images aren't that different than those of an x-ray or MRI and doctors and radiologists as well as nurses look at these images all the time. Currently, whether you realize it or not your "image" and whereabouts are being recorded and tracked all the time. If you own a cell phone and it is in the on position your location can be determined within a few feet at any given moment. If you go through a McDonald's drive through or bank teller machine you are being recorded. If you are traveling major highways in an urban area you and your car are being recorded. If you walk around a shopping mall, you are being recorded. If you walk around a park where a mommy or daddy is videoing their children at play for posterity...Good chance you are being recorded. If you have a credit card, you and your habits are tracked. Heck, google your address and select satellite image and guess what? Zoom in and you will probably see your car in the driveway and your kids' toys in yard that you have been meaning to pick-up for weeks! Unless you are a criminal, this really isn't a big deal!

Founding Fathers??!! They didn't fly dude (and by the way, they whipped the ass of their adversaries back then instead of sending token forces to keep them at bay). No, the images most likely shouldn't be saved - perhaps for training - so what? THIS is what everybody is complaining about??!! Glad we got to see it for ourselves so that we now KNOW that it's not intrusive a single bit. How in the world can anybody get their jollies looking at this x-ray?? Seems more like an amoeba than a person, hee heeee. End of that. The only issue left is radiation, and it seems no one knows enough about it to either complain or feel comforted. Maybe more info on that - and move on to a solution. I've a phuny feeling that the same folks complaining about the security measures will be first in line to sue any airline that DOESN'T do all it can to make them safe. After all, only in America do people eat to lose weight (explanation for another time :) ).

I think it is important to mention that the pictures they obtained were taken from and agency that has nothing to do with the TSA. We have no proof the TSA is lying. That scanner is in a courthouse in Orlando, not an airport. The scanner may not even have any capability to store images, it wouldn't have to for them to store the scans. It would not be difficult to add another device between the scanner and the screen to record the feed. They could then split the video feed into separate images and save them to a hard disk.

I do agree that it is not necessary to save images so long as the person they are scanning has no artifacts on their person that are restricted by our laws. In fact, They probably are after a certain period of time, and I must once again point out that that there is NO evidence that the pictures are being save at the airport, only this one courthouse. Let's no jump to conclusions, we can't even be sure that any other courthouse is doing this. While an investigation may be merited if this issue truly concerns so many people, there is no reason as of yet to accuse anyone besides the justice department that runs that courthouse of doing this.

The equipment is already obsolete compared to terrorist tactics.

So what's the big deal for those of you opposed to the scanner. Are you that worried about a blurred white and black image that cannot be identified as you? As someone pointed out in this thread already, if you don't like it, you don't have to fly. You do not have a right to fly in this country or in any other country.

And when the Republican hacks install videocameras in out living rooms, they'll use the same brilliant logic used for the illegal wiretapping debate;

Republican hacks? I don't see Obama doing anything to stop it or the Patriot act. I just see it being increased even with 2 yrs of him, Reid & Pelosi running the show. Funny how it was all about Bush before 2008 when we read stories like this. How's it not Obama now if everything is the fault of the White House oval office seat?

I didn't like it when Bush did it, I don't like how it's being increased under Obama, and it's rediculous to blame just 1 party when that party has been gone for 2 yrs.

If you want to make it a party issue, the right wants smaller gov't and the left wants to control everything all the way down to the amount of salt and fat you intake & up to who's greedy palms get to handle our insurance $$.

I've known this for six months. Yay to the MSM for being late to the party as usual.

The terrorists are laughing their asses off!

Allen - What? This is national security. You wanna let the terrorists drag bombs onto planes and into court rooms?

Imagine what is going to happen if a terrorist decides to use his penis as a wick. Shoes off and a body scan wont cut it anymore!

So what's the big deal for those of you opposed to the scanner.

The big deal is that every day in America people like you are letting more and more of our freedoms slowly slip away without batting an eyebrow.

The terrorists have won! We are now the land of the timid and afraid! When did we cease to be the land of the free and the brave?

Oh who the hell cares about these body scanners. They do notproduce a sexual image. If it protects the safety and well being of those of us who follow the law from those nut jobs out there who don't, then no one; NO ONE should be complaining about "invasion of privacy and rights."

Unless you are one of those nut jobs.

"I think it is important to mention that the pictures they obtained were taken from and agency that has nothing to do with the TSA. We have no proof the TSA is lying. That scanner is in a courthouse in Orlando, not an airport."

Maybe. But we also don't have any proof that they are telling the truth.

Why should be skeptical of anything our government says or does? It's not like they have ever lied to us, before.

What bothers me more than the "sexual image" is radiation that we don't know about, and even if they say it's safe, how can you trust that? I hate the fact that they're trapping us to go into that machine because most people would not like a pat down.

the arguement that the tsa espouses is pure hogwash in that all the commercial frieght that is flown on the same plane as screened passengers is not presently being screened......huge hole in the premise of passenger safety being a priority when access is unencumbered by the vast amount of unscreened frieght that flys daily........as with any instance of governmental oversight the cure is usually far worse than what ails you.......the source of almost all incidents involving attempts to smuggle explosives originates overseas yet no deterrence in those airports is anywhere near as intrusive as here in the u.s........another example of government overkill which creates more hardship for citizens and does nothing to address the continous attempts by terrorists worldwide to bring their lunacy to american soil.......

These pictures are a lie...I worked on those x-ray backscatter scanners for homeland and I can tell you that is not what the final backscatter image looks like at high resolution. The image is so detailed they can see the outline of every organ in your body and very defined outlines of your skeletal system. These other images are a hoax leaked out to the public to show there is nothing detailed going on! Someone is fabricating lies...A true backscatter x-ray is a very detailed high resolution image showing detail of organs, liquid threats, powders, solids, explosives, etc. Stop lying to the public, sooner or later the truth will come out...

Ron, could you please enlighten us as to exactly what freedoms are being "taken away" by having to go through these security measures? Are you being prevented from flying? Are you being told where you can fly to and who you can see? Honestly, are you being prevented from doing anything except hiding a potential weapon on your person? Get over it. These scans show no distinctive features, so it's not like people are going to say "Hey, there's Ron" if anybody sees it.

And as for D. Man's comment earlier, well, answer your own question: If you're doing nothing wrong, then please tell me...what is the big deal? I'd rather have everybody go through the slight inconvenience of being scanned than have to worry about who's bringing what onto the plane. Of course, there is an alternative...profile and scan only those you suspect could be potential terrorists. But then again, you'd probably rail against profiling as well...

This image is from a bottom of the line machine. There are machines out there that will show you exactly as you are without clothes. And for everyone out there who thinks it is no big deal here is my favorite quote

" Those who give up freedoms for security will have neither"-Ben Franklin

Just a side note : If I am Flying by myself and am chosen to be scanned or fondled what happens to my carryon? If it gets stolen is TSA responsible?

What's the big deal? How about the 4th Amendment to the constitution on unreasonable searches. How about the 5th Amendment on the right to privacy as defined in Roe.

Oh then don't fly? drive instead! oh yeah, there is no right to drive. driving is a privledge which is why the state can take your drivers license. So what prevents the government from deciding to do full body scans and searches at checkpoints on the roads? After all, since you don't have anything to hide what is the big deal? (sarcasm).

As for going to doctors and other such idiotic comments. I decide what my doctor does and sees. My doctor is NOT THE FING GOVERNMENT.

OK, then let's just get rid of every bit of security at airports, train stations, bus stations, government buildings, etc. Then, when the next terror attack hits, I'll enjoy coming on here and hearing the same people who are whining about the scanners whine about how not enough is being done to protect our citizens. Professional complainers...they'd be nothing without message boards...

Bunch of spoiled whiners in here today that forget WE ARE AT WAR. I would rather be scanned instead of becoming meat bubbles when the plane hits the ground or ocean. If i'm lucky, i'll suffocate or freeze to death before impact. Blame AQAP for being the cause of this, not the govt (the effect) for trying to do their jobs. Accountable if they do, accountable if they don't. Most Americans' scans look like a walking hippopottamus anyways. Not an image you would want to store for very long.

However, I still think they are a good idea for fast, reliable and easy security checks.

They're also a good idea for giving cancer to our entire population...

RealAmericansFirst - What would our Founding Fathers say?

I'd bet the first thing they'd say is "Burn them! Witches, all of them!"

Let me guess, do you live without all the modern technologies like running water, toilet, hot showers, electicity, telephone (cell phone), a car, TV, and just about every other modern day technology that our founding fathers didn't have or enjoy.

We don't live in the same world our founding fathers did, and if you'd like to get back to the way they live, I know a place for you. Do you speak Pashto?

Don't see what all the hypes about with these scans. So what if some TSA person gets their rocks off seeing me naked. If she is good looking I'd gladly show it to her in person.

This image, as the article said, was not from one of the x-ray backscatter machines, but from a mm-wave machine. It even specifically says that the x-ray backscatter machines are the ones that produce the "naked" pictures of you, not the mm-wave. If you think they can't see you naked at the airport, you'd be wrong...

Anyway, when does this all stop? So we don't have the right to fly in this country? Do we have the right to use metro trains? Attend sporting events, hang out at Times Square? When does this security theater get extended so you can't go anywhere where people group up without being groped or ogled by someone who claims absolute authority over you?

So many of us are just scared lemmings. We value our freedoms until we get scared, then anything goes to protect us from the "bad guys." We, and our government, are terrorizing ourselves more than any terrorist is. Is Osama bin Laden playing around with the threat levels? No. Is he groping our genitals at the airports and listening to our phone calls? No. Who is? WE ARE.

working_class -

"A true backscatter x-ray is a very detailed high resolution image showing detail of organs, liquid threats, powders, solids, explosives, etc. Stop lying to the public, sooner or later the truth will come out..."

Aren't those the things you want to show on a scanner? It doesn't reveal your cup size, your rolls of body fat; just the skeletal image. The only good concern I've heard against these are the radiation factor. But, I bet still safer than an explosive.

So, picture it: you are flying on an airplane or sitting in a courtroom and some idiot brandishes a knife or gun or some kind of explosive. At that moment will you be wishing everyone had had full body scans? My guess is yes.

As for going to doctors and other such idiotic comments. I decide what my doctor does and sees.

Really, when your laid out on a table having triple bypass surgery or brain surgery to repair a leaking blood vessel, YOU decide what your doctor sees, LMAO! Buddy, let me be the first to tell you what REALLY goes on. I dated a operating room nurse in my 20s (actually I lived with her). She would come home and tell me stories about penis sizes and things like coke bottles being shoved up people's rectums as well as the time a woman came into the OR with a fawl stinch and in toxic shock only to discover that she had forgotten that she had placed 3 $100 bills in her vagina so as her husband wouldn't find it. Buddy, you go right on believing that you are in control of what people see and don't see especially when it comes to your doctors, LMAO!

Old Fart-2474949 "Just a side note : If I am Flying by myself and am chosen to be scanned or fondled what happens to my carryon? If it gets stolen is TSA responsible?"

I was flying through Montreal last week, and could only dream of being fondled by the pretty lady there! Holy cow, I'd have given away my carry on!

Seriously though, I travel often, and my laptop and carry on are never far out of sight. It's not like people are running around the check points, I'd guess it's on video anyway, and people going through the screening are kinda going the wrong direction to be stealing stuff.

Kinda like robbing the hot dog cart out front of a bank, then running into the bank to get away.

One indignity after another all in the name of the fantasy known as security. The purpose of such draconian and intrusive “security” measures is to somehow assure the public that they can fly in safety which is complete BS and obviously their opinion of the people is that we’re just so many mindless sheep milling around.

Consider for a moment their forcing of pilots to endure these obscene intrusions. For what? To ascertain they’re not concealing any explosives? How stupid is that since all a pilot needs to do is to steer the aircraft into the ground or any other structure if he wanted to, so how do they address that? By ignoring that possibility and just trying to make sure he can’t blow the plane up.

Well, since these scanner operators don’t make much money, I suppose they need some form of entertainment to pass the time, hence the drooling over and saving some of the images.

I don't think El Al scans or gropes their passengers and their airline security is probably the best in the world.

Anybody really read the article - those are not the same images the TSA will see. Click on the link to Gizmodo and scroll down to the comments - you will see some very detailed pictures there, especially the one that was posted at 2:35pm

A couple things come to mind.

1) The Fourth Amendment. I thought we had the right to be secure in our person and effects, requiring a warrant be issued prior to such invasions of our privacy be tolerated.

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

I don't recall seeing a warrant prior to being searched in this fashion, nor do I see probable cause. Do they think everyone is a terrorist? Why let them fly at all if that is the case? It's one thing to go through a metal detector. It's another thing to be searched by scanner or by highly invasive pat-downs.

Last time I checked, the TSA was an arm of the US Government. Whether flying is optional or not, this basically amounts to warrant-less searches, that that violates my rights as a citizen of the US. Besides, if these are installed at Courthouses, where you may be required to make an appearance, is it so optional then?

2) Risk vs Reward. With these scanning techniques, you are using ionizing radiation that has the potential to cause problems in organic tissue. Just because they say "it is x times less than a chest X-ray" does nothing to reduce the idea that if you didn't need to be exposed to the radiation in the first place, there is no good reason to be exposed at all. Add to that the effect can be cumulative. The more radiation you are exposed to, the higher your probability and proportion of damage.

Until the TSA can point to the thousands of terrorists that these measures have caught, I fail to see why they should subject millions of Americans to these measures. For the infrequent flier, it might not be so bad, but for pilots and those ferrying you through the skies, it is a major problem.

It disappoints me that so many people value their freedom so little as to regard this invasion of it so dismissively.

What would the Founding Fathers say about this whole TSA mess?

It will be found an unjust and unwise jealousy to deprive a man of his natural liberty upon the supposition he may abuse it.
...George Washington

The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves.
...George Washington

Even peace may be purchased at too high a price.

...Benjamin Franklin

Anyone who trades liberty for security deserves neither liberty nor security.
...Benjamin Franklin

Liberty cannot be preserved without general knowledge among the people.

...John Adams

Twanfox...it's not your "person, house, papers, and effects" that security is looking for with these scanners. Again, unless you're hiding a potential weapon (or, I guess, if you're hiding a balloon filled with illegal drugs in your rectum), these scans shouldn't be a concern to anyone.

And people...stop bringing our Founding Fathers into this. To compare their times to the threats we have to live with now is simply ridiculous.

Gentlemen, how far will you let them go? How about with your wife and children?

http://www.prisonplanet.com/tsa-now-putting-hands-down-fliers-pants.html

yes lets stop this immediately, and lets let the guy from killein tx 3 yrs from now blow the hell out of a plane cause he wants show his girlfriend ..his employer, ex-wife just how wrong they were, everybody seems to think the threat to our airlines and our lives is gonna come from non u.s. citizens!

any of you who think that could'nt be more wrong,there are a million nut jobs living right here among us ..some of them are your next door nieghbors!

every month in this country there are people pulled out of airport lines because they are carrying items that could be used as potential weapons, the airlines dont make this public because they dont wish to cause panic ..or do things that will decrease airline ticket sales. not too mention the 1000's of poeple that are caught trying to smuggle contraband into the states by wearing it on thier bodies and these are only the ones that are caught for every 1000 that are caught there are a 100 who get through ..this contraband could easily be weapons !!

some of you say will there hasnt been an insident of a bomb in a U.S. airport in a very long time ..and thats because extreme security measures work !

none of these people who are thinking of creating chaos and destruction want to get caught, and that possibility is what keeps them at bay with the exception of those who are really determined to make ther point , or cause or ideaology ..or revenge known !

to use a line from a film.."some men cant be reasoned with or bargained with, some men just want to see the world burn!" that is a scary but very true statement!

for myself i want to know if the guy that i am standing at the ticket counter with isnt the one guy that out of a hundred flights i have taken isnt gonna be the one the one flight he is on, who is gonna be the one to have me listed as another statistic ... along with 400 other people!

ohh thats right ..most of you really dont give a damn about 400 other people!

the crazies are out there and they are out there in droves and they are hoping and even praying that the devisiveness of this issue in this country is what will give them carte blanche to blow us all to hell! ...0ne plane at a time if need be !!

This is all a bunch of BULLSH!T.

As these Full Body Scanners are already defeated, like I stated about many "High Tech" Solutions being defeated by simple low tech methods. I also previously mentioned how the Mexican Drug Lords and the Terrorists cooperate (mutually beneficial) including both forcing the over 23 Million Illegal Aliens in the US to cooperate with them (Mexican Drug Lords and Terrorists):

Al Qaeda Bombers Learn from Drug Smugglers

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/09/28/eveningnews/main5347847.shtml?tag=pop

Translation this crap was sold to and bought off by the TSA (US Government) eventhough they knew it was already defeated (look at the date of the link above). Not included in the link is that the Saudis bought the best Full Body Scanners that money could buy (even more advanced than what the TSA bought).

If you have to ask why, it would not surprise me, it is the same reason why we (US Military) do not get the best equipment, as the equipment is determined by the US Civilian Control over the US Military;not as the best, but as to who's State the crap is manufacturers at (especially as determined by the US Congressional Defense Appropriations Committee)(this is obvious, if anyone bothers to research the design dates of the current US Military Equipment, as those designs were for a completely different situation that the current and future situations, the newest designs are over 10 years old (think about if you bought a 10 year old car at the brand new price, worse yet 10 year old food or clothes.)), this is what is forced on the US Military by the US Civilian Control over the US Military.

So like the US Civilian Control over the US Military there is also the equivalent at Congress (Congressional Appropriations Committee) for the TSA, Homeland Security, etc..

As not to be myopic, the reason is manufacturing jobs in those Congressional Representatives States and the effect on their States Economy; of no concern of course is whether this is the best solution for the entire US.

FYI: RADIATION IS CUMMULATIVE, it does not go away, it adds and adds to the amount you are subjected to. Fair would be all those that like this being irradiated multiple times everyday, with no future rights to file a lawsuit, nor benefits from being irradiated.

Reality: The situation is what it is and you get what you get. This "Procurement" pressured Politically by various US Congress Appropriations Committees has been going on for decades and will never change.

D.Man - We'll be living the novel "1984" in another 10, maybe 20 years. And when the Republican hacks install videocameras in out living rooms, they'll use the same brilliant logic used for the illegal wiretapping debate;

You are so uninformed.

WHAT WAS THE FIRST LAW THE PRESIDENT OBAMA SIGNED.

To spoon feed you, The revised January 21, 2009, Patriot Acts, that included the provisions of the defeated H.R.1955 and S.1959, that legalized all those things considered Illegal under President Bush. President Obama's Patriot Acts (plural, singular under Bush) includes the George Orwell's, 1984, "Thought Crimes Laws", in that the thought verbal or written is also a crime, "Anyone stating a radical change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist".

To adhere to President Obama's Law and avoid prosecution, including the monitoring and censorship of all US Communications various internet sites, February 2009, changed their formats to http://404, "Not available in your Region", "Subscription required to view materials (verified physical address)", "Blocked in your Region", etc., especially International News Media. The President Obama Law also requires the Internet Services Providers to provide your physical address without a warrant as well as assisting the US Government in the monitoring and censorship of US Communications.

D.Man Sig Heil Demoncrap Bizzache. You contributed money and voted for this (President Obama).

Oh who the hell cares about these body scanners. They do notproduce a sexual image. If it protects the safety and well being of those of us who follow the law from those nut jobs out there who don't, then no one; NO ONE should be complaining about "invasion of privacy and rights."

That's the exact reason they attacked us in the first place Krissy, to CHANGE OUR WAY OF LIFE. And you and a large majority of people are too dense to realize we are doing just that, day by day.

"OK, then let's just get rid of every bit of security at airports, train stations, bus stations, government buildings, etc."

Suits me. I will gladly takes my chances ifin I chooses to fly anywhere. As it is now I refuse to fly unless circumstances should force me to and I cannot forsee anything that would do that.

This is not about pat downs or scanners. It's about rights. When you fly you automatically become a victim and suspect. I am neither and I refuse to made either, by a socialist, tyranical government.

kpokeefe,

since I have never had heart surgery or brain surgery I wouldn't know what goes on in an OR. However, last time I checked neither of these 2 things are required and they are not done by the government. As for all the things that your nurse told you I don't care what people put into their vagina or up their rectum. When I go for a checkup it is up to me to decide if I want to get my prostate checked or get checked for a hernia. And none of those things are done by the government either. I have no illusion to all of the ways that my privacy is taken away from me. Just curious, at what point do you or anyone here object? Can the government do a complete strip and cavity search?

For those who say just get rid of all security measures. Nice try. How many here have said get rid of all. I have no problems going through the metal detectors I just view the scanners as a violation of privacy and the 4th amendment.

The TSA is like all new government enforcement agencies. They hire improperly, and their hirelings act like the SS. The ATF was the same way for a while, and are only now gaining a little respect.

D.Man - you are right. Things have changed post 9-11. But what would you have us do? Nothing? I say better to be on the side of caution than be a victim.

Just in the last few years look at the attempts of terrorism that have been discovered and stopped due to being aware and cautious. People are whining and crying that their freedoms are being abused, but I see it as my freedoms being protected. I want the freedom to fly, the freedom to sit in a coffee shop, in church, walk on a public street while feeling safe. Face it, we don't live in the 50's anymore where things and times were simpler. There are bad people out there who don't give a crap about human life. Well, I do, and if a body scanner even stops one terrorist from winning, then AMEN.

Who cares. Why are people so uptight? I am not a nudist but I wish I had the b*lls to be one. Pun intended.

Krissy,

we all want to feel safe. so how do these scanners protect you? Will they find the explosives located in a body cavity? NO. does every passenger go through these scanners? NO. So if the terrorists send 5 people onto a plane with wach one having underwear bomb do you honestly think that the TSA will find all 5? NO. So your feeling of safety is like whistling in the dark, it may make you feel better and safer but you are not. I prefer to deal in realilty. Will you accept the TSA doing a cavity check if a terrorist gets on a plane with C4 in his or her butt? Just what are you willing to trade for your false sense of security?

@phantom- no but the chances are better that he and his cohorts will be caught if these scanners are in place, furthur more its not so much as getting caught thats the deterent .. it's the fear that they might get caught that keeps them from enacting thier plans...in the case of the muslims that is great shame !

but yes in any case and all cases actually the perpetrators of crime will succeed if they are committed enough and determined enough..but hopefully even the determined ones wont get away with it fully!!

However, last time I checked neither of these 2 things are required and they are not done by the government

Really, did you bother to read the 2000 pages of Obamacare? I think the government wants to have a lot to do with those 2 things and more. Read it! I did!

If this country had a spine we'd dump the super expensive TSA and fly FREE!!! No search or pat downs and no assaulting my kids. Cut deficit...start here.

If the scanner revealed that someone was carrying a bomb, gun, or knife.... why would you need the image? Wouldn't the actual bomb, gun, or knife be sufficient evidence?

They don't need to save these images.

If they end up doing a more detailed search of me and finding out nothing, they will need the images to explain in court why they felt the need to go further.

phantom,

no false sense of security here. I said I "want" to feel safe.

We all take our shoes off now before going thru security because of the alleged shoe bomber. So, with every new attempt at sabotage, a new method of protection is put into place to hopefully, protect our freedoms.

Like I said in an earlier post, my biggest concern with body scans is the risk of radiation exposure.

For those who say just get rid of all security measures. Nice try. How many here have said get rid of all. I have no problems going through the metal detectors I just view the scanners as a violation of privacy and the 4th amendment

C4 isn't detectable by metal detectors. Nor are plastic guns which are simple to make. Problem is that people like you will scream to high heaven if the next plane gets taken down with plastic explosives or a plastic gun. Heck, I bet you are one of the one's that says, "Bush was in on it...He knew it was going to happen...He even blew up The World Trade Center Towers."

leslie d - everybody seems to think the threat to our airlines and our lives is gonna come from non u.s. citizens!

Too bad the majority of them are the Modern Islamic Believers that are adhering to the Holy Koran (Quran) 109 verses of the 114 verses that Call All Islamic Believers to War Against the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers as well as the penalties under current Islamic Laws for non participation by Islamic Believers; the Death Penalty, as enforced by worldwide Islamic Law Enforcement, aka Death Squads organized, funded, managed by the Imams, Islamic Clerics, Mullahs, and harbored at Mosques Worldwide in accordance with the Holy Koran (Quran) Suras 2.190 thru Sura 2.217, Hadith Laws, Fiqh Laws, Sharia Laws, etc..

Like briefly mentioned in post #1.43. The known National Security Threat. The over 23 Million Illegal Aliens in the US are known to be forced to cooperate with the Terrorists by the Mexican Drug Lords (or the Illegal Alien's relatives in Mexico die). With the Mexican Drug Lords side businesses for money of Human Trafficking, Smuggling, Weapons, Intelligence, Money Laundrying, Forged Documents, Identity Theft, Safe Locations within the US, etc.. And the intent posted on the internet of US Illegal Alien Groups like La Raza (US Taxpayer Funded), M.E.Ch.A., etc. having similar goals to the Terrorists, The overthrow of States to form Aztlan and the Terrorists goal of attacking "soft targets" within the US with WMDs (resulting in terror, fear, destabilizing the US Government, and US Citizen distrust of the US Government (in actions), leading to US Citizens loss of Rights as the US Government implements stricter measures (happened before with the American Citizens of J-a-p Ancestry being put into US Concentration Camps after all their property, businesses (all of Southern California was J-a-p, since the completion of the East West Railroad, as people considered "they all look the same" and could not distingush been J-a-p-s and Chinamen, the J-a-p-s thru J-a-p intensive farming turned Southern California into what it is today (previously like the Baha Desert when they settled there) before it was taken away and sold) were confiscated and sold for profit (by William Randolf Hearst, President FDR's buddy); but, nothing happened to those Americans from Germany (the real spies and saboteurs, misdirection prevented the Germans from sabotaging the "Manhattan Project") during WWII).

I find it funny that every person against this is the type of person that NO ONE wants to see naked. Trust me . . . your clothes do not hide your body shape. Everyone already knows about the train wreck going on, under there.

As for me, I will proudly walk through the scanner and announce: "Don't act like you're not impressed!" I wonder if there is room to do the Heisman stance?

This is no different than getting a pat down before a concert or nightclub. Flying is a privileged, not a right. If you don't like it . . . you've got two feet, start walking.

Thoughts from Cali,

Oh, that's so cruel, but so true! Some people might say you're a "meanie"!

Did anyone look at the image? Puh-leez. I couldn't even tell if it was a man or woman.

CBS News reported that 81% of Americans approve these scanners.

I will go through the scanner because I have nothing to hide and I don't want some fat TSA chick touching my private parts.

What is the Heisman stance? This curious mind needs to know.

Karen - It's that football stance with the arm out . . . too hard to describe so just Google it.

Regarding founding fathers, not putting up with it, bet if they had a choice to fly across the country in 6 hours, (or travel by horse taking 1 year to get to the same place, traveling from the east coast to the pacific ocean, that they didn't even know of)

-bet they would step into a body scanner, hands down.....

"While we have said this many times, it bears repeating, TSA will not keep, store or transmit images."

http://blog.tsa.gov/2008/05/you-asked-for-ityou-got-it-millimeter.html

It's just one lie after another from our government.

The TSA says it won't do a pat down search on 12 years and younger. I have a problem with this since they told the terrorists who to put the contraband on. I also wonder how many lawsuits will come from parents of 13 - 17 year old girls and boys?

Um, Mark (way near the top of this page) If someone has a knife or a gun why do they need a body scanner?? That's HOW they will find this gun, knife, whatever.

If anyone gets their jollies looking at those images, they must have a really, really overactive imagination. And a larger problem than a speck of x-ray exposure.

I wonder what all of these so very modest people, would suggest be done in order to protect us from crazy suicidal jihadists. If NOTHING was done for security, there'd be the same people ranting then too.

I'm not going to hide under my bed or never fly or see "bad guys" around every corner, but I'm not going to just trust that no one would attempt some terrorist act either. They have before. And they surely aren't done yet.

Hard to believe so many see a blurry image of a ghost as some sort of porn.

kpo,

wow! I don't know how you go from scanners to thinking I believe that the government had anything to do with 9-11. Is this a "projection" issue with you?

I also know that C4 won't be detected by the metal detectors. It also will not be detected by the scanners if it is in a body cavity. So instead of sending a random number of passengers through the scanners and the rest through the metal detectors, which will in no way improve our security, why don't we do things that actually will. Let us profile passengers. those that fit a "profile" will be pulled aside, sent through a scanner and also receive a check for explosive residue which will pick up C4 and other plastic explosives. I am all for EFFECTIVE screening, not STUPID screening.

Hard to believe so many see a blurry image of a ghost as some sort of porn.

No kidding.

Thanks Cali - I laughed when I saw the picture. Do they all stand on one foot like a ballerina? Nonetheless, there is a song now too in case you did not know.

all you whiners; it is for your own good, so you must give up your privacy rights, it is for your own safety; so you must give up your rights not to have your home searched on just unfounded suspicion. it is for your own goo, so you must give up your right to speak in public, it is for your own good, so you must give up your privacy rights on bank transactions, saving account, credit card usage, it is for your own good, so you must give up your rights to a public day in court it is for the good of society; we can all be safe from those evil people, the government will save us and protect us, do not you know that !

Ooolala, who would have thought that big bro would want a full scale image of your baby maker...

This entire convoluted ineffective security bull@!$%# is the direct result of being prohibited from profiling. You can't profile so the end result is feeling up a 3 year old from Kansas.

El Al, who has the best airline security in the world, profiles and does it very effectively. Accordingly, there is no need to grope, fondle or scan their passengers.

I believe these gropings and scans are indeed a 4th amendment violation unless you sign a vaiver when you purchase a ticket, which no one does.. Where's the ACLU on this?

Body cavity searches next?

The liberals all seem to be exhibitionists as well. Who would want to see Nancy P or Barbara Boxer nekkid? I, for one, would throw up. The points are: The government has not told us how much radiation is really absorbed by each patient. Do we really trust the government to tell up the amount of radiation is safe? (I DO NOT THINK SO) Israel has rejected these means of protection. THEY ACTUALLY DO PROFILING. Our government and the TSA are lying and cannot prove that any of these measures are going to prevent a catastrophic outcome.

for everyone who is fine with the scanners, where do you draw the line? For many of us, the scanners go too far. Please tell us what is too far for you.

Let me think about this, a revealing scan of my private parts or falling out of the sky... well I guess they can't go to far for me. If they demand a DNA sample to boot, not a problem.

I figure in a few years we will all be required to fly in bikinis and speedos. Which could make flying fun for everyone!

leslie d

"yes lets stop this immediately, and lets let the guy from killein tx 3 yrs from now blow the hell out of a plane cause he wants show his girlfriend ..his employer, ex-wife just how wrong they were, everybody seems to think the threat to our airlines and our lives is gonna come from non u.s. citizens!

any of you who think that could'nt be more wrong,there are a million nut jobs living right here among us ..some of them are your next door nieghbors!"

I agree. People seem to forget that the OKC bombing wasn't from foreign terriorists, but from American ones. Oh wait. OKC doesn't count though since it wasn't in a major city. Unless it happens in NY or Washington it didn't happen and doesn't matter.

American "terriorists" scare me more than foreign ones.

Wear a depends... crap your pants... blame it on the pat-down.

If I have to fly, I'd prefer a full pat down by a gorgeous female. At least I can ask for that. She can slide her fingers up my inner thighs anytime. She might be surprised in what she finds where the thighs connect. lol

The determined terrorist will have explosives surgically implanted which can be detonated any number of ways and such devices will never be detected. However, I’ll wager the Israelis with their excellent profiling program would have a much better chance of keeping them off their aircraft.

Our paralyzing political correctness policy prohibiting profiling and relying on technology is a recipe for disaster. Sooner or later.

As I’m writing this I’m hearing some Muslim organization stated they will not allow their women to be scanned or groped below the neck. I wonder how that’s going to play out.

I am wondering what the result of all this radiation exposure will have on frequent fliers, airline personnel and TSA personnel? Will they all be getting cancer from this and if the government will pay for treatment and compensation?

Too far. I wish we could edit our posts at any time. They can not go too far for me to feel safe flying.

TSA has no leadership... Oh wait! The Republcians for the past 1.5 years held up voting on his appointment! Why is this important? Let see...

Well, the TSA director will be able decide and recommend what equipment(s) should be purchased and used... Interesting that these machines are purchased and implemented without control. So what? you may ask...

Well many of these equipment and purchases were made prior to Obama administration. The newly appointed head would have had the ability to halt the sale and implimentation and criterias ....

SMOKE CLEARS... CUTTING BUDGET? MY A$$... It is all about how to use our money and sqeeze a little more so that their contributors can give a little more.

Nothing they are doing now would have stopped 9-11 and Muslim women in traditional clothing do not even get scanned.

Profiling would be much more effective and less intrusive and cumbersome for all; but that would be politically incorrect. Let's inconvenience everyone for the sake of not hurting feelings.

Anyhow, do you actually think this will work? Let's see what I can bring on a plane that would have a terrorist impact that the security measures will pass over:

Less than 3 oz of sulfuric acid that can be sprayed into the eyes of several passengers causing blindness.

Ink pens make great weapons to gouge out eyeballs or puncture the carotid artery...even puncture organs.

Using a lighter and a plastic bottle I can fashion a shank that is deadly. Ever seen shows about prison? I could do the same with my toothbrush.

I can bring on ropes, straps (luggage), etc that make great strangling implements.

I can use two "gifts" of wooden train whistles with the centers hollowed out, then construct nunchucks using them and a 2 foot length of rope.

There's plenty more ways to kill, mame, or otherwise terrorize a plane full of people with items that easily pass through security.

But the scanners and taking my shoes off sure make me feel a helluva lot safer <sarcasm>.

You must be MacGyver.

And now that I think about it, since these full body scanners are not mandatory at ANY airports (metal detectors are always an option), what terrorist in his right mind would elect to walk through one in the first place??

ron190...: I saw a bulletin on that same thing from a government web site; I can no longer find it; when requested for a comment Janet empress of TSA, declined to make a statement; this PC stuff is going to get a lot of people killed sooner or later !

I am kind of thinking like OldFart if I travel as an only adult with my toddler who watches my baby while they scan/pat down me, at least with the metal scanner I was able to walk through and follow the toddler I made sure I had no metals on me and we were on our way in a flash. Also I know some are saying they aren't going to do pat downs on kids 12 and under so what are they doing to them?

Let us profile passengers

Bingo! Now just get your liberal left cronies to agree with you and you might have the long-term solution. However, if the liberal left won't profile criminals and illegals then I have a hard time believing they will agree to profile seemingly lawbiding citizens who fit a profile. Point is that your protecting one Constitutional right but giving up another in either scenario! But, I like it that logic is beginning to permeate your liberal mindset! It is a START!

Until then, we have to do what is being done!!!

kpo,

we seem to agree on profiling at least.

Ladies,

how can a scanner or an "enhanced" patdown tell the difference between your maxi-pad and a pad of explosives? Just how far are you willing to let them go? How about the search of your 13 year old daughter?

Phantom,

Here is a description of how the various detectors work. Reading your previous posts I kinda thought you already knew this stuff as you seemed authoritative. This should help you! You're welcome! Oh and look! It comes from a "liberal" medium source...So we know it is accurate!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/02/01/AR2010020103210.html

all are going on about this BS like it matters when none of the cargo is inspected

The TSA is a joke trying to show that the government is dealing with a threat

Joe B.-758292

There must be a communication problem. We are in agreement that the TSA is not looking for your person. The Fourth amendment doesn't say that anyways. It says that you have the right to be secure in. "To be secure in" means that you have the right not to be searched without probable cause and without a warrant specifying what is to be searched and what they are looking for/will take. While it might be arguable that a private entity does not necessarily need these things depending on the circumstances, the TSA is the government (one arm thereof), and therefor is subject to ALL limitations as placed on the government, most especially those enumerated in the Constitution.

Additionally, 'of concern to me' is certainly an issue. I have no desire to have more x-rays (low dose or not, they're all suitably ionizing radiation) than absolutely necessary in my life, and I sure as hell will not subject my children to such scans or invasive pat downs. If anything, they are more susceptible to trauma and developmental disorders by ill-timed, useless security procedures. Exempt them, and the next thing you know you'll hear about some terrorist that made use of a child to carry something on board, and then the TSA will specifically look at those cases too.

Probably better to let the airlines fail than subject to this violation of our rights.

If anything, they are more susceptible to trauma and developmental disorders by ill-timed, useless security procedures.

I'D LOVE TO SEE THIS STUDY! My god! You know, I went to Catholic schools growing up where we got our hands whacked with rulers and sticks not to mention having your earlobe pulled down to your shoulders when you acted up and after attending a 20 year class reunion a few years ago, none and I mean none of the 84 of us that attended had any "disorders" or "developmental issues". So, I don't see how getting patted down every Christmas when you fly to grandma's house is going to ruin lives!!!!!! GET REAL PEOPLE! When your brat get his or her first ticket at 16...Guess what?...They are going to get searched and patted down when they enter the court room to plead INNOCENT!...Of course because they are your kid and they would NEVER be guilty of speeding!!!

kpo,

thanks for the link but I do know how they work. My point was that if a woman said no to the scanner and then went onto the enhanced patdown how does the TSA know if the bulge they hit is a maxipad or a pad of explosives. So what do we do now? Also, just curious but how will TSA know (if they detect it which they won't) that the string coming out of a woman is not in fact a triggering wire or just a string to pull out some more explosive? I have two main points that I keep coming back to. (1) there is a 4th amendment issue and (2) the current "safety" procedures are useless and do not keep the flying public safe but only give the impression of safety.

BTW, the best arm I have ever seen was my 1st grade teacher, Sister Ann Marie, who could hit a person in the back row with an eraser without coming close to any other student. Never saw her miss.

kpo,

Too much sugar during a particular phase of fetal development is capable of causing brain disorders. Apparently, it is a suspected cause of ADHD, and that's just one quick search. Such periods of development are called a Critical Period, amusingly enough. Such periods are important to development and, during those times, the absence or presence of particular stimuli could cause a far greater effect than anticipated.

I'm not saying I know of a particular critical period during which being scanned with ionizing radiation or subject to an invasive pat down could cause biological development issues (cancers) or psychological problems (Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, for example), but they hardly have the same level of understanding or biological resilience as adults do.

If children are taught (as they probably should be) that no one should touch you in the genital area and then we have the TSA groping groins of children, that COULD potentially lead to problems. We do have video of that 3 year old girl crying up a storm because the TSA agent was performing one of those invasive pat downs. To me, it just isn't worth it for the privilege of showing the TSA that my child is not carrying a bomb or gun.

Ref: http://www.healing-arts.org/children/ADHD/#Smoking

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period

Great comment Twanfox; My wife has always been very nervous around water, only recently did her parents share the story of when she almost drowned when she was 2 years old. She had no idea it happened. Our subconscious is only starting to form when we are 0-4 years old, the smallest event can greatly affect us for the rest of our lives.

---

Can we all just step back from over reacting & doing exactly what terrorists want us to do (live in terror) and realize the TSA are effectively sexually groping children for no good reason?

All terrorists know that you just have to shove C-4 where the sun don't shine and you can get past the NoS backscatter x-ray machines 100% of the time. They don't detect internally. Airplanes just are not a priority for them now. There are way too many other options wide open.

The only way to detect it is bomb sniffing dogs. Not to mention it being a much friendlier way to scan.

Can anyone that is "pro security at any cost" say that a stranger patting the genitals of a 3 yr old whose parents have never left the country, who were acting perfectly normal in line (up until that point) - that this an efficient and effective means of security?

Seriously?

And confiscating scissors and the like...

Do you really think any terrorist will ever be able to take an entire plane hostage with a box cutter of pair of scissors ever again? They would get bum rushed in 5 sec flat.

but each person makes a choice to step through the scanner. At that point you make a choice to be scanned. That means you are entering into an agreement that you and the scanner now know every detail about your physical person. If you want to keep that stuff private you need to simply avoid these scanners. If that is not an option then you have to make a choice about what is more important. so, what is more important? the stuff on the other side of the scanner or your privacy? it is each individual's choice.

mob_barley, what choice?!! - either you submit to the indignity and have your privacy violated or you do not fly...

That's exactly what I'm talking about. For the safety of the greater public everyone has to undergo this invasion of privacy. Because some people do things that would harm the public we are forced to have our privacy violated in order to fly or even to enter certain buildings. But the choice is still there, either you go thru with the violation of our privacy or you don't fly. It is a choice. Some won't see it as a choice since they feel they need to fly, but it is a choice. I don't agree with the violation of privacy. But it is clear why it exists.

@ mob - For a lot of people it's no more choice than fly and feed and clothe your family or don't fly and live under an overpass. Not much of a choice that.

Mob Barley: no we don't and it's time for Americans to speak up and end this assault on our personal freedoms.

Then speak up! I'm not stopping you or suggesting you stop speaking up. I don't agree with these scanners, but I do know that I have a choice to avoid them. If your job requires you to fly to feed and clothe your family then you have to tell your legislator your story or else get a new job. You don't have to do that job. If you can hold down that job, you can hold down a job that doesn't require you to fly. You have personal freedom. no one can take your freedom away.

Sometimes you don't have a choice. This was not at an airport. This scanner was at a government office, I believe. If you need to go to the tax accessor, or if you have been summoned to court, it is not as simple as fly/don't fly.

Okay, okay, some people can't avoid being scanned. Call the local news and make your stand. If you are a businessman and fly everywhere or you need to go to the courthouse and the only way for you to continue your life as normal is to go through the scanner call the local news and tell them of your situation. do a little activism while you are having your rights violated. I'm serious, everyone here says you can't avoid these things and it's not a choice. Well, then choose to do something about it. We are all here posting comments because we feel strongly about the need to protect our rights as human beings. If you can not avoid getting scanned in this way then you are a prime candidate to be an activist against these scanners and you NEED to tell your story. I can make the choice to not get scanned but my life doesn't take me to the scanners the way some of you have described. Tell your story to everyone. If enough people agree that it is wrong then the scanners will be scrapped.

Wasn't picking on you Mob, just pointing out that it's not all airport anymore.

If you are going to court, it's pretty much all public anyway.

One can choose not to go to court, but they will probably either be subjected to body cavity searches later on or subjected to a lot more alimony and child support than reasonable. Either way, you're taking it up the...

However, we really don't have as much privacy as we all like to think we do.

I have to agree with Mr. barley here folks...there is always a choice. Many Americans have come to believe with every fiber of their being that they must have a certain income that comes with working at a certain job. The truth of the matter is that we have a plethora of choices with regard to everything in this country.

Further, I believe that if you do not like the choices with which you are presented, then it behooves you to speak up frequently...and often, loudly. Thirty years ago was the time for Americans to begin a whisper campaign to reclaim the rights and personal freedoms given up so readily by the generations that came before us. Now it is time to shout...or jump up and down screaming rather if that is what it takes.

If one is not willing to actually do anything, then one's complaints, no matter how numerous, are futile. We live in a physical world where ideas only exist insofar as we are willing to effect a physcial manifestation of said ideas.

Seriously, when was the last time anyone on this comment board thought "Hmm...I would love a turkey sandwich right now" only to have a tukey sandwich appear with no physical action on your part? Hmmm? Now that is food for thought!

This scanner was at a courthouse, not an airport. You often don't have a choice about whether or not to enter a courthouse (jury duty, for example).

We, the people, need to decide when "enough is enough" when it comes to giving up our privacy in the name of security.

Great comment Ghost. I think a lot of us here are saying the same thing. We feel the need to protect our rights. We can all understand how this scanning thing is an invasion of privacy. I think we all know why the system got it's footing in the first place. Many have given in to their fear and many more are too lazy or too far removed to stand up and argue against these "security" measures. For example, my quick response was to simply choose to avoid the invasion of privacy. But that won't work for everyone, so a different choice is necessary. Some choices can be painful but necessary, if you really feel that your privacy is being violated then you do need to get people's attention focused on your situation.

mob_barley,

You have NO choice. Once you pass the first security checkpoint in an airport (and it may be a vehicle checkpoint at the perimeter of the airport property is the TSA wants it to be) you have no choice. You are NOT entitled to know whether you will be scanned or by what type of equipment. You are NOT entitled to know it you will be wanded, patted down, "aggressively" patted down, strip searched, or body cavity searched. And once you pass that checkpoint on the way in, you cannot change your mind. You are essentially under house arrest without charges for the next 24 hours. The TSA for any reason, or with no reason at all, may pull you off your flight and hold you for 24 hours without charge before releasing you. If they do so, the airlines are entitled to charge you for any re-booking fee and you MUST pay it or face civil penalties of fines and up to a year in jail by the TSA (not by the airline.)

The TSA has lied about a) the number of employees fired for stealing from luggage (over 7,000), b) how many TSA employees have been prosecuted for stealing from luggage (2), c) what they do with things like embroidery scissors that they confiscate (they sell them on eBay), d) who gets the money from selling your stuff on eBay (no one knows --- it is a secret), e) whether the machines can retain images (they can all store the images), f) whether photographs are taken in conjunction with the images (yes, they are and they are stored with the image), g) the level of detail that the images can show (they can CLEARLY shoe penis and testicles, nipples including aeroles, panties, bra inserts, feminine hygiene products, etc.), h) whether employees always treat the images respectfully (there have been several incidents of giggling and pointing and calling over other TSA agents that have been captured on cameras), i) whether any terrorist or weapon has ever been caught by the TSA (they have never caught anything and miss about 87% of all test items sent through by the TSA itself, often with advance warning), j) whether there is a "permanent additional search" list (yes, there is), k) whether there is a way to be taken off the no-fly or additional search lists of you are put on in error (no, there is not), l) how searches are conducted, m) whether there is a complaint mechanism that will not result in your not being placed on an "enemies" list (no, there is not). So why should we start believing the TSA now?

I live not too far from the Unclaimed Luggage store which sells the luggage and contents that the airlines (lose.) The airlines actually turn a small profit on lost luggage. But the managers of the store complain that the number of valuable items in checked luggage has fallen dramatically (cutting into their profits.) They say that TSA scanners mark luggage with small marks that identify the location of valuables such as cameras or expensive perfume. Their confederates (often airline baggage handlers or other TSA employees) slit the bag at the indicated spot and remove the valuable. The valuable is then put in a place where another TSA employee picks it up and takes it away from the airport. The baggage handler then changes the destination tags on the luggage so that it goes to a small airport with no full-time baggage office. This causes it to take weeks before it is located and cannot be associated with a passenger and is sold to Unclaimed Luggage. The Unclaimed Luggage people say that there is so much luggage damaged in this way that there is very little to sell and that there are almost no valuables any more. It is so bad for them that they have to "salt" the racks with new items bought from wholesalers such as TJ Maxx.

And we're supposed to trust the TSA?

9/11

Then stay off the damn planes! I want security!

Jerry, if you want security, don't fly. TSA isn't keeping you any safer than before we had TSA, all they're doing is spending government money and perpetuating the fear mentality that we've had pounded over our heads since 9/11.

I'm sorry your such a pu**y Jerry. It is sickening that these machines are allowed to operate. Hopefully the ACLU files a lawsuit.

The company that makes these scanners also produces an Xray truck for police to drive around the neighborhood and direct high power Xrays through your walls and/or automobile. They can literally see into your bedroom from the street.

http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/2010/08/24/full-body-scan-technology-deployed-in-street-roving-vans/

Ben Franklin had it right. Is it 1984 yet?

SHAWN,

"Right to Privacy!"

Actually, Shawn, there is nothing explicit about any right to privacy in the U.S. Constitution. It's a "right" Americans have always insisted on, but any such "right" is more the result of Supreme Court decisions over the years based on the search and seizure clause and various parts of the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth and Fourteenth Amendments than of any specific mention of such a "right" in the Constitution. These Supreme Court decisions have resulted in what you might call a "doctrine" of the right to privacy. The Founding Fathers never dreamed of the sorts of technological inventions that have come along since their time, such as these body scanners!

Hmmm, interesting mob_barley,

So if it was required for everyone to be implanted with a chip, for the Security of the US you would blindly step into line.

Or even better yet, everyone must fly naked, after being subjected to a cavity search. As like I stated in post#1.43, this technology has been known to be defeated since a year ago, 2009. And the only way to detect the current threat is a cavity search, and the terrorist know this (as they posted on aljazeera)

Stop flying. Take the train or drive but stop all this madness!

grunt,

TSA is also going into train and bus terminals. So what next, scanners at vehicle check points? BTW, there are scanners that can fit into vans that can scan cars and passengers next to them without their consent. The government has been sold 500 of them. why?

Jerry,

"Then stay off the damn planes! I want security!"

Then you must ground the planes, period! End all private and commercial flight if security is your priority. When the damn things crash, whether by accident or as a result of attack, they land on something. Frequently they land on someone. Oddly, news reports almost always list the passengers and often their biographies, and then as an after-thought mention that an un-named 7yo girl, her 10yo brother and their mother died when the fuselage crushed their home.

I agree that the scanners and gropers are more show than effect. I suspect we did stimulate the economy of the sxanner manufacturer. I'll bet he was whipping these things out at max speed. I hope he did ALL the safety checks and calibrations. Of course, after installation, maintenance is probably in the hands of either the TSA or the airport. Neither should make us comfortable.

The latest threats seem to involve cargo. Think of the millions of parcels flying through the air from USP, Fedex, UPS, etc. No one needs to risk airport security when $10 will put your bomb on a plane.

Mickey,

Maybe it has been awhile since you read the Bill of Rights. Amendment 4 clearly and EXPLICITY states: The RIGHT of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated...

Can't get more explicit than that. Am I "secure" in my person when a government agent can scan my body without probable cause and without a court order? I say no. A police officer can not look in my car truck just because he stopped me for speeding unless there is probable cause. the police can't come into my home without a search warrant issued by a court without probable cause. So why can they scan my body, subject me to radiation without probable cause?

Right to safety. Have you forgoten why things like this were put in place. just to remind you it was to protect us from people trying to blow up planes and kill people. I believe it was just two weeks ago that we found packages on planes that were going to do not so many good things. The only reason to be angry with these types of things is if you have something to hide.

The scanners did not find any of that, informants did all the work. If you want to feel safe wear a helmet while you watch fox news.

Shawn,

You're absolutely correct. Our right to privacy is far more important that safety. Lets take away all safety measures that invade our right to privacy so that any would be terrorists can board the planes with the weapon of their choice, crash it into another building, take those aboard hostage or simply blow it and everyone aboard to hell. At least then you will die with your rights in tact. Right?

Ernie, Ben Franklin said." Those who would give up thier freedom for safety deserves neither."

phantom,

You did not read my post carefully. I specifically stated the basis of the Supreme Court's rulings on the "doctrine" of a right to privacy. I said it is based on the search and seizure clause as well as the First, Fourth, Fifth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments. You should note, however, that the word "privacy" appears nowhere in the Fourth Amendment. The Supreme Court simply inferred that the language of the Fourth Amendment implies a right to privacy, but the Constitution does not say so explicitly. It never uses the word "privacy".

Mickey,

I agree that the word "privacy" does not appear in the 4th, but the right to be "secure" in both body and house is pretty clear and I don't think it requires the SC to imply anything. We may just be having a discussion of sematics. Anyway, I view it as a violation of my 4th amendment right to be secure in body by having the government scan me without probable cause. If there is probable cause then scan, poke, prod etc.

Sure y'all have a "right to privacy", while you're are inside your home with the shades drawn over the windows- presuming you are not doing anthing to infringe on the rights of others while you are inside your home, ie: not making a noise disturbance, not poluting your neighbor's air, not endangering the neighborhood by manufacturing anything toxic or explosive, etc., etc. Now, when you are about to board an aircraft that will be packed with 160 some odd people- that will then fly over or near populated areas- you must forgo some "rights" in return for the privilege of traveling by public conveyance. You can always walk. (I am losing patience with some of these people who insist they have "rights").

arbyw,

I am losing patience with some of these people who insist on giving up constitutional rights so that they can have a false sense of security.

Then we've lost already - you've just screamed WE SURRENDER on behalf of all of us.

Whoa, hold on. I do not speak for you or anyone else. I speak on behalf of myself and only myself. My comments are not representative of your beliefs.

mob_barley....COWARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is a fallacy that the scanners make us safer. They do not. Real safety involves knowing who is traveling, their history, and why are they traveling. I suppose in a different way that is just as personally intrusive. The actual chances of dying from a terrorist attack in the US is extremely low. This is even after including the 911 attacks. The back scatter body scanners (The ones with the really detailed images.) deliver a very low level of radiation. Depending on the source quoted, they deliver about the equivalent additional whole body radiation as 5 to 20 minutes flying at high altitude. (The TSA claims 2 minutes. If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.) If every plane passenger had to go through this type of scanner, the risk of death from radiation induced cancer would be about the same as from a terrorist attack.

You don't know me. I am not a coward. I never said I'm all for these damn things. I simply said I know why they exist. I also said if you want to keep your privacy you don't have to step through the friggin' scanner. The people who passed legislation okaying these devices are the ones who say it makes us safer. I didn't say that. I don't believe that. I think we have too many laws and those laws impinge on our personal freedoms.

It's up to you whether or not you step through a scanner. It's up to you to keep your privacy private. I encourage people to think for themselves, be open and honest, and don't fly if you don't want to be scanned!

However, if these things cannot see into body cavities, they are quite limited.

bethcat, sorry but mob is stating fact unlike you stating fiction

Very true, TonylnDallas.

It's up to you to keep your privacy private.

Exactly right. Except my choice is NOT to ignore these privacy-invasion machines (and the picture shown in this article is NOWHERE near as revealing as most I have seen), but to cry out against the wanton repealing of our rights, without so much as a peep from the American public.

YES, I can choose NOT to fly, and I do, but if I MUST fly, I will neither accept intrusive scans, nor inappropriate touching.

The American populace has willingly surrendered their freedoms, and I am disgusted and disturbed by those who stand by and allow it to happen.

i only ask this fred ... do you believe in second ammendment rights !!

mob_barley,

Oh, come on just by your screen name we know, just smoke more ganja.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM1z7EzYH88&feature=related

How about this everyone fly "commando" (no underware). So now the US Government is indirectly saying everyone must wear underware, I got to invest in the undergarment industry.

How about we do away with the scanners and use two things that actually work:

The metal detectors we already had and bomb sniffing dogs

Ok consider this:

Lets say the TSA actually finds someone wearing a C-4 Bomb. (For a change, they miss bomb parts during most tests) What do they do?

The terrorist sets it off in line instead of being captured.

Is this worse than on the plane? There are hundreds of people in airport lobbies. Some are more crowded than planes.

Double bonus for proven effective bomb smelling dogs:

Extremist Muslims feel that dogs are impure, and if they die at the same time or near a dog, god won't be able to bring them to heaven. Most would NOT set off the bomb due to the presence of the dog.

---

Heathrow Airport: Jo Margetson, 29, reported John Laker, 25, after he took her picture with the X-ray gadget and made a lewd comment.
The pervy guard leered and told her: "I love those gigantic t**s."

The x-ray machines are not effective, and we are still not screening based on previously visited countries (Legal non-racial non-religion profiling)

How much time and money are we going to spend scanning teenage girls that have never left the country? Alot if the TSA has anything to say about it. How about nuns? Toddlers? Grandparents?

A complete waste of time and tax money.

Since they started the scanning can anyone show irrefutable proof we are safer now then 10 years ago? Have those machines found even ONE person trying to sneak anything even remotely dangerous past security? WOuldn't we be better off and have more personal privacy using specially dogs (or pigs for the Muslim travelers) for detecting explosive materials?

I much rather have a dog make a breif sniff of my body then a government sanctioned molestation. A trained dog's nose is so sentitive it can be two feet away and smell the bad people. The dog triggers on a person, that single person is pulled oput of line for a closer check. End result - faster scanning, less molestation and time standing in line. I MIGHT start flying again. I am taking the train to visit family this year.

Can you point me to an incident where a terrorist borded a flight within the US and attempted to fly to another country in an attempt to bring down a plane ? I thought they were coming on flights from over seas. I'd like to see the video of Dubai International Airport or any other Muslim\Islamic country; Pat frisking and scanning Muslim women prior boarding flights. as well as any TSA video proof that Muslim women are scanned or pat frisked or even asked to remove their veils prior to flights. It ain't happening therefore I consider myself just as pure and holy. We can't profile but we can discriminate and be sexists allowing someone to exploit a hole in the security fence so broad it's in front of your face.

I've stood at a customs office where a van load of Muslim woman refused to remove their veils a supervisor was summoned took the women around a corner out of main view asked a few questions checked the passports and let them out a side door without one removing the veil. I'd have gave a left or right testicle for a video cam to tape that, Double standards

Has anyone stopped to wonder why, if the new body scans don't work as some on here believe, the terrorists seem to have stopped trying to board planes with bombs or bomb making parts on their person? Has anyone stopped to wonder why they are now sending packages instead? Could be they have ran out of idiots willing to blow themselves up but I somehow doubt it. I believe they know that while there is still a chance of "getting away with it" by electing a "pat down" search, they realize the chances are slim of this happening so they are having to come up with new ways to commit suicide. Yes to an extent it is an invasion of our privacy, but a necessary trade off for our safety while flying. When a cop arrests you or you simply ask for a ride home if you have had too much to drink (yes in some places they still do this) they will pat you down for weapons and run you thought the computer to see if you have any outstanding warrants. By some peoples warped standards this is a violation of their rights, yet they called the cops and asked for the ride. Boarding a airplane is voluntary, you bought the ticket and asked to be seated on the plane. No one forced you to do so, so get used to it. For those who must fly for a living I suggest that if they don't like to be searched they get a pilots license and a private plane. This way they can have their cake and eat it too. I fly from my small local airport to a larger international airport quite often in my plane and have yet to be bothered by pesky searches of any kind. When I decide to fly commercial I accept the inconvenience of modern safety procedures like body scanners, pat downs or metal detectors as the minor inconveniences they are to me for the safety of not only myself but the rest of the people I am flying with and am not a cry baby about it. And yes if you think about in rational way, they have to be able to store the images for evidence in court as needed at a later date when they do find something illegal.

WOW ! a Butterfly little little butterfly....... what world did you just zone in from ? you think terrorists have been defeated by a security feature. It's because of to many victory parties they sit back watch an learn. Do you work or contract with Homeland Security, if so you just convinced me to start fearing.

ernie,

so do the pilots and flight attendants get to buy their own airplane? Just how many times in a week is safe to be subjected to the x-ray. Oh I guess they could just quit and go find a new job in this wonderful economy. If wanting to protect constitutional rights is being a cry baby then I gladly and proudly declare myself to be a cry baby.

I would be shocked if the images weren't able to be stored. I would be shocked if TSA was not able to show a scanner image in court of someone who was arrested based on what was viewed from one of these scanners.

The question is how long before you can go to xxxtsascannerimages.com and and see some images of well endowed women or men. Especially after some TSA officer gets fired for an over enthusiastic pat down.

We need to not only repeal the health care act, we need to repeal the patriot act, and if the congress does not want to do that, then, get rid of them.

51msg...so you want to take health ins from kids and cancer patients AND make the country LESS safe???? What a great American!

grunt-1263073 - 51msg...so you want to take health ins from kids and cancer patients AND make the country LESS safe???? What a great American!

Before you make an uninformed statement like that go read President Obama's Health Care Reform. Was your hands afterwards, the smell of so much bull crap in one place really stinks.

The funding for the health insurance for children is from the misused Product Likability Lawsuit of the Tobacco Companies. If you do not understand what Product Liability means you are more uninformed that I thought. As children are/were not the legitimate users of the Product.

And those that are required to obtain Health Insurance are automatically put into the High Risk Category (affordable if you make over $50,000 per year).

In the Health Care Reform is the expected profits due to the purchase of mandatory Health Insurance and increased business as a possible source of new Revenues. Insurance Industry $67 Billion, Medical Device Industry $20 Billion, Pharmaceutical Industry $23 Billion.

Again before the Health Care even reached US Congress President Obama already made deals with the Insurance Industry, Medical Device Industry, Pharmaceutical Industry during his White House closed door meetings.

Unlikely ally of health care reform: business
Insurers, drug companies came on board early and may profit from it

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35989945/ns/business-us_business/

grunt-1263073 see the sheep, be the sheep, so that we can pull the wool over your eyes like an atomic weggy.

M.C. it is already been known that these scanner can and do store the images until deleted. And what is to stop the operators from using a cell phone to take a picture of the image, answer: nothing.

Like I said let's all go "commando" (no underware) and really give them something to look at. And use your own cell phone to take pictures of all those involved so that if anything appears anywhere we can sue the holy bejesesus out of them.

Yeah, these are soooo great because they stop so much terrorism. Really, you could put together a chlorine gas attack at Wal-Mart, and if you have any resources at all just walk across the border with a bomb. I am so glad to give away more of my freedoms for this false sense of security that some Americans feel. I mean do these people not realize the kinds of bombs you can build just by going to the local Rural King? This has turned into just another government power grab.

This I like...

At least there'd be some accountability.

Ah but make the TSA employees pay the bill, they screw up, they pay, not the government which is OUR money.

The only problem with that scenario is the US taxpayers would have to cough up the fine, not the TSA employee that leaked the pix. Just try to get 1 million dollars from a TSA employee!

to do what you sugggest -- basically fine the TSA or a TSA employee -- means I am paying myself for him/her to screw up big time. remember this, budget big or small, it is all tax money which you and I need to pay first. thus, I am paying myself for any screw up by some TSA fool. talk about welfare state.

I have a better idea. Move security back into the hands of the airlines who already have a vested interest in making flights safe. Disband the TSA and give everyone a tax cut.

The TSA is nothing more than security theater meant to placate the masses. If they were serious about security, why don't they allow profiling?

The issue is not so much what the government will do with the images but what some adolescent TSA geek might do with them. I've been through the milliwave scanner several times. Its quick and non-intrusive - if the government employees do what the government SAYS it has told them to do. I don't agree the the TSA should pay if the images are released because that is using tax payer money. We need to hold the individual accountable for his/her actions if something improper is done. I suggest a very easy policy on the part of TSA. If any disparaging remarks are made by the image viewer - job lost - on the spot, no argument, no appeal to their union. Pack you bag and get out the door. If anyone releases images - mandatory minimum sentence - $250,000 AND 5 years in federal prison. There ya go - scan away.

I agree that the "security" measures are absurd. But I feel strongly that your ability to make a living is not dependent on your ability to fly. You can get a different job. The plain meat of this is that because of recent events in the world someone is standing around screaming that we need the stupid security measures. I'm not saying we need these scanners, but someone is, and lawmakers are listening to those people.

You can get a different job.

About 10% of the US population would disagree with that statement.

It's all about government control and needs to stop. Do you people really fear terrorist? Not me.

@mob_barley, Do you REALLY think that it's that easy? I have to fly as a part of my job - even though my job has nothing directly to do with flying. I haven't held a job in the last 10 years that did not include SOME travel requirement. Telling your employer that you'll only travel by train will not get you a job.

mob barley -- my job was directly dependent on my ability to travel, either by car if the distance was considered local or by air if it was half way around the flipping world. considering the cost of a house, food, utilities, and a car, not to mention putting two girls through university, that higher dollar pay check was kind of a necessity. unless you are a bazillionaire and are willing to pay me 120,000 bloody dollars a year please stop telling folks like me that we can do other work. we can, but the costs can not be measured in dollars.

considering the cost of a house, food, utilities, and a car, not to mention putting two girls through university

I read that as considering the cost of a house, food, utilities, and a car, not to mention two girls

mob_barley,

(Bob Marley) just go smoke some more ganja and collect your Government entitlement check.

Gneisenau - About 10% of the US population would disagree with that statement.

Using the same formulae as the Great Depression the US is currently at 20% and rising.

The Great Depression was 25% Unemployment.

With this administration doing nothing to make illegal the causes. like reinstatement of the Glass Steagall Acts that made the causes of the 1907 Depression, 1929-1939 Great Depression Illegal after years of failed attempts at regulation, 1907 to 1933. As regulation, not making illegal is what the President Obama Financial Reform attempts to do. Repeating the same failures (1907 to 1933) and expecting a different result. As to why the next "Crisis" of 54.6 Trillion USDs after the current 60-100 Trillion USDs "Global Economic Crisis" will occur.

Try reading the article you are commenting on.

Why don't you read the article, I did. The point is that people are freaked out about a freaking white BLOB. What privacy exactly is being denied? Wow, they're storing white light. Scary. I might have to go hang myself. I go through security everyday, it doesn't bother me one bit. DNA, real naked pics, etc., I might see the problem but these pictures prove that you guys are whining over the stupidest thing ever.

The picture they're showing is from the "less-realistic" version of the machines. If you DID read the article, you'd see that there are much more revealing versions in use. That's just not what was released in this FOI request. Doesn't mean it WON'T be your privates in the next release.

If you read the article, you would see that the machine that took this image is not the higher-resolution (or whatever terminology that is appropriate) machine that airports are using. This machine apparently cannot show you the clear outline of a person's body. So you are comparing apples and oranges.

The machines now being placed in airports are the ones that clearly show outlines of people's bodies. So if these low-res machines are capable of storing images, one could logically conclude that the higher-res machines are surely capable of doing it as well.

The fact of the matter is, supposedly people were promised that these images would NOT be stored anywhere, but apparently that was an outright lie.

Where does the line get drawn people? When do we stand up and say that our privacy has been invaded enough?

Perhaps what has to happen here is not that they shouldn't store images, but that we people in charge who are willing to take the blame for the truth about what they are doing. I cannot say if these things are making people safer, but someone we elected (or who was appointed by someone we elected) decided that it needed to be done, then lied to keep their political favor. That is what really must end.

So show me a candidate who runs on the platform of "Abolish the TSA, repeal the Patriot Act", and I'll vote for him.

Ben Franklin, said it best, Those how would give up liberty for a little security, deserve neither.

you do understand there is ONE way to defeat this entire argument. we can all go to the airports or the court house naked as the day we were born. now we not only get to piss off a whole lot of common folks, we get to piss off judges, TSA, plane crews and virtually everyone else too. I might add we get to walk about totally embarrassed in the bargain. Instead of making me walk into that vanilla atmosphere naked, just ignore my beretta .22 pistol.

Many people find my body-blob very attractive.

The point is that people are freaked out about a freaking white BLOB. What privacy exactly is being denied?

with the types of scanners used in airports, they can practically see your foreskin (assuming you still have it)...

why pasties, lets do it just like the ontario folk do, what is good for the gander is also good to cloth the goose. just go topless.

D McKnight - why pasties, lets do it just like the ontario folk do, what is good for the gander is also good to cloth the goose. just go topless.

"I Love Boobies".

What happens if it is that time of the month for a woman? will the scanner see the string and a TSA employee mistake it as a fuse to a bomb?

"What happens if it is that time of the month for a woman? will the scanner see the string and a TSA employee mistake it as a fuse to a bomb?"

LMAO.....that is too funny ron-1902603. I can just see the TSA thinking, "Ah $hit, we forgot all about the woman's monthly hygiene products being used to hide explsoves. I can see them requiring women to wear sanitary napkins instead of tampons during "that time" so we can "show" them we really are menstruating!!! Of course, they'll still want to feel up the pad to make sure it doesn't contain C4. When they see an increase in the number of women menstruating fitting the "profile" of a terrorist they'll find a way to "inspect" that area of our lives also!! You'll have to show up the day before to go through ALL the security checks when that happens.....ROTFLMAO

Lets All just be required to get naked prior to flights, Think of the partys in the air teminal lobbies and all that free love thing Liberals of the 60's and 70's were so fond of ~ Could even ease tensions and make terminals all weed token areas at the same time Peace & Love Man ~ Farrrr-out groving

The Ministry of Truth says they are not collecting the data.

War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.

Does no one remember the extensive files kept by the FBI, especially J Edgar Hoover? From the 40's on? That are still out there? And on people that didn't make any damn difference in the end.

I'm with mob_barley; make a choice between security and privacy, it's up to you. I'd want a bomb or chemical caught BEFORE I got on the plane, thank you very much.

And Bethcat-the name calling is uncalled for. It's why I generally don't read these things anymore. The lack of civility is becoming rediculous.

blueunicorn:

1. The TSA has NEVER a caught terrorist, bomb, or whatever. In fact they regularly miss bombs and bomb making material brought in by authorized people used to test the screening procedures.

2. The TSA is not there to catch terrorists or bombs. They are there to literally catch stupid criminals and put on a show for the public. If someone is able to bring a bomb into an airport, then that person or group has won already. If they are caught at the airport, what is to stop them from blowing up everyone there? Every terrorist attack has been a failure of the "intelligence" community, long before the TSA is involved.

3. There is a cost to living in a free society. Yes, it can be dangerous. However, the benefits (like being able to travel and go about your day without having naked pictures taken or being molested) are worth every sacrifice. Personally, I would rather die in a terrorist attack tomorrow then subject myself to these types of regular screening. That was the attitude of our founding fathers. They would hang their heads in disgust to see our government take away the rights they fought so hard to give us.

4. Even taking 9/11 into account, you are in more likely to be killed on the way to the airport then by a terrorist. Would you support requiring these types of screens just to be able to drive? Driving isn't a right, you have a choice not to drive and you need to "make a choice between security and privacy." Please stop giving in to all the scare tactics, they are just that tactics. There is no real danger.

Ben Franklin, said it best, Those how would give up liberty for a little security, deserve neither.

Let's discuss this security vs privacy issue. The current system only has a small percentage of passengers going through the scanners. Most still go through the old metal detectors which would not find any "underwear" bombers. So we are no more secure. As for those that do go through the scanners these machines will not be able to find any explosives hidden inside a body cavity. So the level of security that we are getting (which is almost nothing) has the cost of a great loss of privacy. So for those who think that the scanners are keeping bombs off the planes are living in la-la land.

blueunicorn -- hate to be the bearer of tough news but the TSA has caught exactly Zero folks with bombs or guns in an air port setting. being honest, folks "Test" the ability of the scanners and the agents continually. most of the faked up @!$%#e gets right past em.

What? You guys don't already show up at the airport dressed like a stripper at 2am? It's just me? :)

ghost -- I resemble a cross between the pillsbury doughboy and the michelin man. I am also a nudist and have been for better than a score of years. in YOUR public vanilla world I am NOT going to subject you to my image for you would scream most loudly, even if it was two am. besides, I am the one that normally tosses bills onto the stage where the strippers are removing their whatever's. I am not the one picking that money up.

If you are so worried about radiation, I recommend you not fly. The largest source of radiation most people receive except for xrays come from atmospheric radiation.

usn usmc mom -- the trouble is simple. the last time I went into an airport the TSA folks were not americans stupid or otherwise.

Jerry, You are a smug moron. Condescend to people you know. I doubt anyone you know, listens to you. What a jerk.

usn usmc mom doesn't walk in the sun either.

you people don't know what it means to deal with cancer. you guys need to look for more info about those machines. if you need to travel often by plane, good luck then. I don't want to see you tears over your kid who is daying in a hospital with cancer

Claim your "gay"

Hot female TSA agents??? Surely you jest. Have you gone thru screening?

Surely you joke, have you seen the big fat TSA women they employ!

clint I havent seen ANY "Hot" female TSA agents ever and I flew daily until one year ago.

Sometimes I hide a Derringer .45 on my person just to see if they can find it. They haven't yet.

Clint, that hot female TSA agent you dream about will be leading to Bubba the most thorough pat down specialist TSA's got. So close your eyes and remember what she looks like right after Bubba says "feet shoulder width apart".

You must be going to the wrong airports! Besides, yours and some of the responses are so sexists. Are you all hot hunks yourselves?

What terrorist organization worth it's salt is going to try to smuggle something these machines can detect onto a plane. Waste of money and time!

Yep...

You forget that the underwear bomber succeeded in getting through the machines. So far, PETN is undetectable.

You can't live with WHAT IF, fear is an animal that will eat you alive. Remember you can die while driving to the Airport.

Johnny, you better not ever go outside your house then, cos you never know what could happen!! I cant believe you would trade your freedom for safety. Such a shame this country has become.

SHAWN-1387469....You can't live with WHAT IF

Yet, that is what those who are opposed to these scanners are doing as well. "What if someone can see my privates adn they release those images, what if that guy looking at these images is a perv?" It goes both ways. I just do not understand those opposed to those scanners. In my opinion, who cares if someone can see an outline of my junk? Or for that matter a more clear image. It not like we all haven't seen it before and we'll never see it again. With as much free porn as their is on the net these days, why would anyone wanting to catch a glimpse of something settle for a blurry image or an outline of an image?

Well-stated, STLMike. Those who store and/or peruse my "image" will either be greatly disappointed, greatly amused, or slightly nauseated. Grow up, folks.

To those freaking out about this, you can't go to the local store or anywhere else in America these days without being on a camera. On a camera you are easily recognizable. But people freak out over these grainy non-identifiable photos? Get some perspective people!!! The press plays you guys like a harp because you are unaware of what really happens with these issues. Please, get a grip people and stop freaking out about STUPID stuff........

With as much free porn as their is on the net these days, why would anyone wanting to catch a glimpse of something settle for a blurry image or an outline of an image?

Well...porn is (usually) done with willing participants who don't mind sharing their nudity in all its glory... But people WILL prefer these images...sick people...the type of people who like to hide cameras in bathrooms and dressing rooms, because they like the "violation" factor...doing something against someone's will or without their knowledge...

I don't particularly care what anyone thinks about my body...but I prefer modesty for myself regardless...I don't wear low cut tops, short skirts, etc...and it's my choice (or should be) to not have an image of my naked body stored or released for other people's viewing...

for those who aren't "freaking out" over the scanners, just how far will you let the government go? Are you fine with strip searches? how about cavity checks? Just what will make you freak out?

Shawn, fear isn't eating me up. We all live with what if..Do you wear a seat belt? What about a motorcyclyist that wears a helmet? Are those things done out of fear, or caution? What about the guy who runs a chain saw and wears his protective gear? What about yearly inspections on a car? All things done because of what if? I don't have a problem with being scanned and Dave says I should stay inside. Really?!?! A scanner that gives a blurry picture that looks more like an xray is what people are scared of? And I'm the one who needs to stay inside? lol

Oh and by the way, random people can film you in public, take pictures of you etc... and it's legal. So what freedoms are being taking away with scanners?

The image included in the story isn't an image from the airport scanners...which are much more detailed...

And yeah random people can film me in public or take my picture...but luckily I don't run around naked in public... Now if they were allowed to sneak in my home and take a picture of me in the shower, we'd have a similar comparison.

I'll concede the comparison isn't quite the same, but it doesn't change my feelings about being scanned. I personally don't have a problem with it. If others do, I can undertstand I guess and I don't know what the answer is in that case, but if a scanner can stop another 911 situation, I can't see how it is all bad. I'm sure they will look for other ways around this, but does that mean we stop trying? Where is the balance between civil liberties and safety? It's a tough one to be sure. Glad I don't make the decisions because any way you slice it, people are going to be pissed off.

johnny,

I agree that the balance between civil liberties and safety is a tough call. FDR made that call by putting Americans in internment camps, which I think most people think was wrong. The supreme court has ruled many times that civil rights trump safety. If a car is full of explosives in the trunk, does a police officer have the right to search the trunk if the only reason the car was stopped was because it was speeding? No. What is the probable cause? If I show up at an airport wearing a heavy coat in the summer time then that would be probable cause to pull me aside. If it is 20 degrees outside and when I approach the security point and I am sweating profusely, then that would be probably cause. I am not willing to just give up the 4th amendment.

Phantom, unfortunately, or not depending on how you feel,

The border search exception is a doctrine of United States criminal law that exempts searches of travelers and their property from the Fourth Amendment warrant requirement.

People are not going to be able to fight this using the 4th amendment unless this doctrine is repealed.

johnny,

and what border am I crossing when I fly from LA to San Fran? How about El Paso to San Antonio? Do we really want the government to decide that border search includes crossing a state line? If so then do we require passports to fly from LA to NY? Or maybe just travel documents. So I guess the only solution is to just let the federal government do whatever they want in the name of security. If that is the case then it may be necessary to use the 2nd amendment to defend the 4th.

Wrong.

Can't have it both ways? I don't want it both ways. I wanted to go back to no searches at all, even before 9-11. Can you imagine what would have happened to the 9-11 hijackers if Americans weren't disarmed, and constantly bombarded with the "don't fight back - someone might get hurt" propaganda? It would have been great! Showtime!!

Apparently, you are not reading the posts Steve. People commenting that this is ridiculous are posting quotes from Ben Franklin (apparently an idiot to some folks because he was not a pig in the cattle shutes in the name of 'security/taxation/supervision') and that they would rather die at the very unlikely hands of a terrorist, than be exposed to such degridation. They are hardly arguing that there is a lack of security. You must be one of those that makes stuff up in their head and just believes it...

-not bob levy

The point is that none of these measures actually make us safer. It is still quite easy to circumvent the security measures. The TSA has become little more than a government job creation program.

Speaking for myself I won't go through a scanner because until they have been in use for 15 years with no evidence of dangerous side effects then I will not consider them safe. They were rushed through testing.

How do you know these measures don't make us any safer? Which ones do, which ones don't? Suppose no additional security measures were taken after 9/11. Do you seriously think there would not been another domestically launched attack?

Then what would everyone be saying? Why didn't anyone do anything? How can we be so stupid as to have not even done the basic security measures like luggage search and body scans. I would have done naked cartwheels through the security line to avoid this tragedy. An on and on.

Don't generalize, it's not a rational argument.

Specifically, the TSA regulations about what you can bring on a plane have not made us safer since they can be easily avoided. There are still several exceptions that will never be changed, they quite literally can't, but those exceptions mean you can easily bring illicit materials on a plane, and from there it means those policies do nothing to make us safer.

Fine, moron, have your safety but patting down a NUN IS NOT GOING TO AID IN SAFETY. HOW ABOUT SOME GOOD OLD PROFILING? Wouldn't THAT keep you safe? Let me figure this out. Who, lately, has been doing all the suicide bombing? Who, lately, has been crashing planes into buildings and who, lately, has been shoving bombs into their shoes? Oooooh!!! Right! Muslims! Hm, well, as the great Ben Franklin said, ""Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Put US MARSHALS ON THE PLANES ARMED WITH GUNS AND VOILA, NO MORE TERRORISTS. Idiot. These are supposedly 'random' scans but they aren't random when a child, a nun, a man with a physical disability and a child with cerebral palsy IS NOT random. It's asinine and I hope you CHOKE on your safety.

Well, let's see. You can't bring a box cutter on a plane and that can be detected by a scan to make sure no one does. You have to remove your shoes so the shoe bomb thing is off the menu. Perhaps we're just safe from repeat attacks. Sounds good to me. I guess you're the type that would be in favor of removing surveillance cams from store parking lots because they aren't 100% effective in preventing attacks and abductions. And that would be generalizing and not rational anyway.

And you can't bring on board quantities of liquids of sufficient size to mix into explosives strong enough to bring down a plane. Also detectable through scans. I'm not a fan of TSA but they are clearly a lot smarter than you when it comes to airline travel safety in the modern world.

Satan, he wasn't generalizing, you were. Prove we aren't safer then get back to me. Hint, you can't....

yah airhammer I agree. I got to worry about paying the bills that still remain from two girls going to university, for those new cars I drive just so folk like you have a job, for my food, for my house, etc. someone north of us said the other side of the picture is to live UNDER the overpass. unless you are a bazillionaire who is willing to pay me my salary, please shut the Eff up about not flying. for some few of us, that method of travel is pretty much mandatory, a function of our job. so unless you are willing to hand over a well filled check book, don't tell me to not fly and don't tell me to seek other employment. tossing burgers about in a fast food may work for you but it would not put food on my table.

you are right my friend and because of that we should scan and triple scan and pat down those people from those countries that are making all this trouble for all of us , we should stop all the political correctness and stupid lawyer that defend and protect terrorist,

Apparently you are confused about what the word "generalize" means. I specifically called out the TSA regulations regarding what you can bring on a plane and how much of it. That is not generalizing, that is the opposite of generalizing. They are easy to circumvent, meaning they do not make us safe.

First, you have to put them in the small, 3 ounce containers, but since they aren't testing the chemicals inside they could easily be explosive or poisonous.

Second, if you have medication in liquid form you are allowed to bring as much of it on the plane as you want, you don't even need a prescription with you.

third, if you have a medical need for juice or food (low blood sugar concerns, etc) then you are also allowed to bring that on the plane in whatever quantities you want.

These are easily exploitable loopholes that could never be closed, since you can't deny people the ability to bring medication on a plane.

Last, airhammer, I did not invite you to speak for me or to decide for me what my opinion about something should be. If you want to have a rational discussion instead of childish attacks, please respond with a reasonable argument.

I tried to drive to Puerto Rico but, mycar kept flooding out.

You can shout all you want but the screening process will not stop because of you and because of all of you, I would rather be safe than sorry that, the scanner and patdown are intrusive yes I agree but I rather get to my family alive than in a body bag.

They were not foolish, they are straight up liars. And guess what, no one will hold them accountable for it, just like no one can hold them accountable for what they do with the images they collect. The terrorists will soon have more rights than a US Citizen on our own soil.

I can see that you all do know nothing about evidence if a subject enter the scanner and indee has explosive, those two picture will be used in court and that is why they are save, but I should point out that those picture should be erase at the end of the day when crime has been comited.

vickforces, I know far more about evidentiary procedures that the average person, but since that has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand I am not sure why you brought it up.

The TSA made the statement that their machines cannot and do not record images. They made these claims repeatedly. Anyone with a basic understanding of computerized imaging systems knows that to generate the image it has to have been saved to a hard drive (or, benefit of the doubt, say it was saved temporarily to RAM only). They could certainly program the system to delete the image immediately after it was no longer needed, but the point of this article is that the machines can, and apparently are, saving images.

OH OH I get it you mean like all those private and confidential medical records\personal and court records and police swat team and Narc names. That Gov agencies, and companies sold or scrapped contained on Micro chips or hard drives on copier and office machines we heard so much about back months ago that nobody seemed to take the time to erase or purge, to third world. Silly me I thought you all were talkin about artist hand sketchs.

It is not the airlines doing the scanning, it is the TSA (government). As a matter of fact the airline pilots are suing to stop it. And they are dumb asses too.

That your rights and freedoms are nothing more than an illusion that can be taken away at any point. They nothing more than a means of control. Our wonderful president FDR proved that in 1942 when he set up internment camps for Japanese-Americans.

janet reserved the right to molest passengers for TSA itself. The airlines are being forced to walk down the path of scanned and patted down also.

hey Jerry,how many planes have you flown?the lawsuit the pilot's have filed pertains to the pilot's being/not being scanned,not the public.