What the He## is going on in this country with the fear factor? Our government is trying awful hard to keep us in a state of fear. Just as GW is being proved that it's not being caused by humans, they start up with the arctic melting and now this. People the only thing we have to fear right now is our government(past and present) who can't seem to run our country correctly. Please vote!!!
There is nothing wrong with assessing threats that are real and preparing for them.
Asteroid impacts present a real threat, even if an asteroid big enough to destroy a city and kill thousands of people only comes along every few centuries. It's worth putting together a program to detect an intercept them.
We saw the damage that can be caused by a "once-in-a-century" hurricane with Katrina. It would have been worth spending a couple billion on better levees and disaster preparedness.
Or, do objects in outer space not exist? Maybe astronomy is one big liberal conspiracy...
I think it's fine to look for hazards in space, however if it costs the government a lot to do I'd say don't do it.
If you want to watch the sky, here's how you do it: Get colleges and independent sky watchers to log into a sky-watch site and log their observations there. It's a very low cost means to get the info.
You want to stop the asteroids? Good luck. I think it's a bit of a lark to assume that we can predict the trajectory well enough and intercept an object quick enough to make a difference. We can spend billions more that we don't have in an attempt to create an intercept platform, but how good is it if it doesn't quite succeed? Directs the asteroid into the ocean vs. a US city- result: Massive tsunami and deaths around the globe vs. obliteration of millions locally. Look, I don't want people to die, but we can't assume that we are able to pull this off.
We couldn't protect ourselves from an astroid hit if we tried.
If Bill Clinton who is the U.N. Ambassador to Haiti, can't even prevent a collara outbreak while he goes campaigning for politicians. What makes you think we could prevent an astroid hit?
Now that i have said that, this articles will disappear..lol...just watch
Just as GW is being proved that it's not being caused by humans, they start up with the arctic melting and now this.
How exactly is global warming being proven to not be caused by humans? Please share the proof, because I must have missed it?
But I have to ask you... even IF it was found to be part of a natural cycle, one that will affect us in a very negative way (food shortages, droughts, etc...) and if it is KNOWN that certain actions of people, and industry will contribute to, and ACCELERATE the process... make it worse, make it happen fater... don't you think we should examine how we act, and perhaps change a few patterns of behavior...if they will help... even a little? Not for your sake or mine... but for our children, and grandchildren?
The proof was reported on this MSNBC site with two different stories. Both agreed that the sun is the problem. The whole GW issue is a Mother Nature thing which has happened numerous times. True, we need to stop trashing our planet but we are not the cause of GW.
This doesn't seem like fear mongering to me. It has never seemed like fear mongering. First of all I'm not afraid. You'd have to have a brain like plain white pudding to be afraid of this kind of thing. I have a telescope, a pretty crappy one, and I can look for myself. If I ever see one with what looks like a trajectory that could hit Earth, then it will be too late. The odds of me finding an asteroid that will impact Earth are simply astronomical.
But look at the reality of this situation. Congress said "hey let's look around and see if anything is going to smash into us from space." They use a few billion dollars and a lot of scientists sit around and predict trajectories over vast periods of time. Once you know all there is to know about an asteroid you really don't have to watch the asteroid anymore. You then can simply watch for unexpected changes in the orbits. I don't know the system they are using for this but even I could imagine a pretty simple inexpensive way of accomplishing this task.
It's a good idea to make a log of any potential threat to the planet. It's not fear-mongering at it's heart. sure, some people probably will use it for that end but fear-mongering comes from people with nefarious purposes and there's not a lot anyone can do to prevent them from doing it. You can vote the current chumps out but they will be replaced by other chumps. That said I still encourage EVERYONE to go out and vote. In recent years our political system has been voted on by less than 2/3's of the people capable of voting (and that's being generous). So, yes, get out and vote.
I am an optimist and even I would be surprised if America could reliably deflect an asteroid. But does that mean we shouldn't try?? NO!
I think Joey makes a great point of letting people make observations on their own and putting it all into a database to save taxpayer dollars. But having said that I also feel it was a great idea for congress to mandate that NASA track 90% of these things in the short amount of time that they did. The hard work is basically taken care of now we just need to focus on getting the last 10%.
The government does monger fear, so it's up to us to not be afraid. And like I said, if you are afraid that the sky will fall anytime soon then you've got bigger problems than the sky falling.
lol, you are wrong. They are NOT shutting down NASA. I can't believe anyone would actually think that. Even if you only read one NASA related story for the whole year I can't imagine coming away with that bad of an understanding of what's happening at NASA.
Just to clarify NASA is NOT being shut down. The space Shuttle fleet IS being retired. The Shuttles have been America's manned space back bone for almost 30 years. But as NASA prepares to retool it is necessary to develop new systems for all the different purposes being proposed. For example, George W. Bush decided to shut down the Shuttle program so we could invest in the Constellation program. That program included the Ares rockets. Obama decided to put America's space program on a "flexible path". This meant that instead of the rock solid goal of going to the moon (as was the case for Constellation) NASA could have options. The current option that is being entertained is the goal of sending human beings to an asteroid by 2025 (it could happen sooner depending on which asteroid we choose). Also NASA has been given the task of monitoring Earths climate from space. NASA (and it's departments, like JPL, Aimes Research, etc..) has and will continue to be a world leader in satellite manufacture and launch and operations. NASA does a lot with education and research. NASA has a lot on it's plate and it's an old administration that is going through some growing pains right now, but it is most certainly NOT shutting down.
" I think it's a bit of a lark to assume that we can predict the trajectory well enough and intercept an object quick enough to make a difference"
Actually, we have been able to track the trajectory of both Voyager probes well outside our solar system... As of August 2009, Voyager 1 was over 16.5 terameters (16.5 × 1012 meters, or 16.5 × 109 km, 110.7 AU, or 10.2 billion miles) from the Sun
So I dont see why, with enough observation, we could not do the same with an asteroid...
Please don't use numbers or any real data here. Only 5% of people who went to public schools in the US will understand what you are talking about. Just say: "God did it." and you will be accepted. ;-)
On the other hand, if it can be determined that an asteroid is headed for Dallas Texas, home of GWB, for example, we could encourage more right wing tea bagging Republicans to move there.
Sounds like a proper use for that evil science, Astronomy.
National emergency plans for natural disasters can also work in the unlikely scenario of an asteroid strike on the U.S.
If it's big enough.....it doesn't have to strike the U.S. to affect the entire planet. We would be foolish not to try to enhance our ability to find every one of these potential threats. It's like Kennedy driving through Dealey Plaza with the top down when his body guards told him it's a bad idea but he ignored any potential threats too. We will get Whacked one of these days. It's just a matter of when, and if we have the chance to see it coming, well in advance, at least we could try to change its course.
I will add this article to my folder with the one about the United Nations formulating an Alien Greeting Team (I wonder if the team has went to the U.S.~Mexican border to test their greetings).
I agree--if the damn rock is going to hit us so be it, I'm more concerned by the economy, the unemployment, and the do nothing but provide mouth service government. How many dollars do they want for this fiasco?
Ignore SHAWN and his anti-climate change demagoguery. He mentions the MSNBC articles, but fails to recount that the scientists in the article specifically stated that solar cycle can't account for ALL of the accelerated warming. He hopes you didn't read the articles or has forgotten them.
And YES we can predict asteroid trajectories quite accurately. Astrometry allows us to send probes to distant planets. Imagine how difficult is would be to land a probe on Saturn's moon Titan if our astrometrics were poorly understood.
@SHAWN-you are right about this huge effort by the powers-that-be to keep average Americans in a state of constant fear--it's been going on in full force since 9/11. Fear = votes. Fear = ratings. Fear = purchases. Fear is big business in this country.
After all the effort the government has put into intentionally dumbing us all down (on-going since the Nixon administration), keeping us afraid all the time is a walk in the park for them. It's easy. And the worst part is that no matter who we vote in, you can bet these scare tactics will continue. The difference between a democrat and a republican is like the difference between a red chevy tahoe & a blue chevy tahoe--they may talk a good game of "differences", but once their in, the only real changes will be superficial and basically meaningless to the lives of most Americans.
If you stop and really think about what COULD be done to improve our country as opposed to what IS actually being done, I promise it won't take long until you're so angry that you blow your stack. For instance, why are we spending 3 trillion dollars in Iraq & Afghanastan while most of us here at home are circling the bowl? WTF is up w/that?! Oh yeah, because they scared everyone into believing we have to kill all these supposed "terrorists" or they're gonna come and kill all of us. I'm sick to death of this BS! All of it! And I bet about 90% of my fellow Americans feel the same way. So, now what?
Since Holdren is all for population control through forced abortion, forced sterilization, and taking illegitimate children from their mothers, it would seem he would be happy to have a chunk of rock take out a significant portion of the population.
While I don't disagree with monitoring the sky as best we can, I'll take my science advice from someone that shouldn't be thrown out of the White House.
Sounds like just another waste of Billions of dollars that could be spent elsewhere. Ummm hold that thought- will it create Jobs and will they be Green jobs? If so. then full speed ahead- let the Billions flow
Carl.. can you please go tell NASA. so they can sink some "solid" money into it, instead of with robobozo, at a cost of..?..over 2 million. and a chance of that Asteroid you mentioned , or other space matter up there, may getchas' up there, and we don't like to see our tax trillion dollars being used the way they are. We'd have to work extra hard and longer to pay up the raised taxes to keep you in operation.
and while yer there? can you please let NASA = Gov't , know, we have men, women, children and animals dying down here, starved to death.? and we can sure use some money, for food. did i mention, "working people" need food stamps?
I thought I'd be safe to review comments from readers on a Tech/Science news. The extremist pap is really getting on my nerve. Ignorant lemmings.....let me diect you to the nearest cliff to run off of. Then you won't have to worry about global warming at all.
It is difficult for some folks to let go of their petty differences. Because the article at hand comes from the White House science adviser we will inevitably get a over-dose of people's comments filled with anti-white house rhetoric. This is nothing new for those of us who stick to the science and technology side of the news. We often come here hoping we can avoid the slack-jawed ignorance that comes with unshakable political views.
It's slightly amusing to me that someone with a screen name like "HearMyTruth" would speak using "we" instead of "I". Shouldn't it be "hearOURtruth"... but I suppose that is just semantics.
There will always be political garbage to wade through on issues like this one. The article talks about a guy who wants there to be policy in place that assures we will be prepared in case of an impact. Well, when it comes to policy talk you will see all the tea partiers and the Obama lovers and the Bush haters and all the other Policy wonks out there. Like a bug zapper they will come to these places and leave their opinions up for everyone to see. And as has been done here it's up to us to let them know that those opinions are worthless. If I used the phrase "Obama threat" or "Palin threat" or "Bush threat" or what ever politician you happen to like or dislike then I'd hope you'd all jump on my case and let me know what an idiot I am. Even if this was a political article that kind of talk is idiocy. They are all politicians and for any of them to be a threat to America would put them out of a job.
earth gets hit every day with no effect to plant life ...its the big ones that scary the rich folks ...have those guys go up and start cutting these big rocks in 1/2 s
well, that's one option. The trick is how does one cut an asteroid in half. I agree that smaller objects, generally speaking, cause less damage, especially if the burn up entirely. So in that respect it's a great idea. But, apply that idea to a very large object. Say there's a rock 10 kilometers in diameter (6.214 miles wide). It's careening in towards southern Nebraska (dead center of the U.S.). What do you use to cut it in half? Lasers? A bomb? How you cut it in half directly affects the outcome.
It appears that the earth was struck by an astroid earlier this month (Oct. 8). Details are just emerging now about the impact, which can be found here.
No need to worry because when the big one hits again, the population will never know, until after the fact. The World Order don't want the public to panic; resulting in the breakdown of law and order.
Astronomers say reports that the Earth could be struck by a small asteroid in 2030 are wildly exaggerated. BBC News 4 November, 2000, 22:15 GMT
Less than a day after sounding the alert about asteroid 2000SG344, a revised analysis of the space rock's orbit shows it will in fact miss the Earth by about five million kilometres (three million miles).
However, astronomers will continue to monitor the asteroid, which was picked up in Sep 2000 and thought to be 30 - 70 metres (100-230 feet) across.
Some scientists have criticised the IAU and Nasa for releasing warnings about the asteroid only for those warnings to be rescinded less than a day later.
There are bizarre political messages in the report - but that should not detract from the reality of the situation. The US is not the only country with the technology to detect these objects but it makes sense for one central agency to collate all the information and share it with everyone else - indeed there is an obligation to work together. It is this point which the report seems to have missed - for planetary threats it makes sense for everyone to share technology and information. Politically there may be some different agendas that prevent this. But we can scale this thought up and down as we will, the fact remains that in the immediate future anyway we have but one bit of space rock we can use as a life support system, so it makes sense for us all to protect it. It doesn't matter whether it is destruction threatened by global warming caused by several current life forms here (including humans - primarily humans and ants as it happens) or external threats like NEOs - the point is we are all in it together.
That happened last year... not 2 weeks ago. It was also estimated to be 16 to 30 feet across, so I doubt anyone knew about it until after it exploded. We can't hardly find 1km across asteroids, let alone 16 to 30 feet across. Quit with the conspiracy talk.
mob?.. that's NASAs' job to figure it out, so noone gets hurt. but they've been busy with robobozo u know.........they don't have a dime to spare for Anyone on the planet.
pretty bad ,i say. i don't know how they sleep at night. maybe it's that a hefty paycheck.
goin up to space to find another plant to set up shop. leave us with the mess? nuthin to do up there anyways, can't breath the air. ooooo boy. what a waste of money.
I think the point to this whole thing is that we may (I emphasize MAY) be able to prevent a NEO from hitting Earth and doing damage if we detect it early enough. (The science for this is really cool. It involves quantum computers and som really neat physics.)
Did you know you have a greater chance of dying from an asteroid or comet impact than from getting hit by lightning? That's because lightining only kills one or two people on average when it strikes. However, when the asteroid or comet comes it could kill millions or even billions.
Check out the book "Death From the Skies" by Phil Plait. (Sorry, but he doesn't get political).
PS - The scientific consensus (meaning 99.9% of scientists agree) is that humans ARE causing or at leat accelerating global warming. Sorry everyone.
I don't care at all about knowing if something is heading our way and I don't want my tax dollars spent to find out. Whatever happens, happens. God is in control.
Go just spoke to me and said that he wants you to immediately sit in a hot bathtub and slash your wrists m-612920. Please don't question this because then you would be doubting the Will of God. Just have faith and do as he wishes to do and you will find yourself in heaven afterwards. Don't question, just instantly believe and have faith in God's will.
Shawn, please don't lump the rest of us in with that guy. Please.
I do care about knowing if "something is heading our way" and I do want his tax dollars spent to find out. ...okay and my tax dollars too.
Whatever happens, happens... maybe a truckload of Phil Plait books will fall off an over pass while m-612920 is directly below. He won't care though because he's completely calm and at peace with his maker but it would be shame to damage the books.
What would the Easter Bunny do? ...jump out of the way.
Sorry if I was harsh but the possibility of preventing our extinction so our great grandchildren will exist trumps a few bucks in taxes. It bugs me when the religious talk as if the second coming is tomorrow so we just keep making messes that we don't think we'll be around to clean up. OUR KIDS WILL though. One day, very soon, our children are going to turn to us and say: "You could have prevented this, but you didn't. Why?"
Do we blame the republicans/Democrats/Gays/Illegal immigrants? Our do we finally start pointing the finger at ourselves?
No Shawn don't get off the soapbox. I'm right there with you. I actually do want my tax dollars spent on these kinds of things. I have always been the type to accept blame where blame is due and it bothers me that the world I've grown up in is one problem after another that is handed down from generation to generation. Where does it all end?
Here we are, with all this technological know-how, making breakthroughs in various fields of science on what seems like a daily basis. Are we really going to hand our children a future with no social security, unmanageable national debt, failing educational systems, a sub-par transit system (in my opinion), and endless reruns of 'Two and a half men'?
The future can be bright. It's up to us to make it so. And regardless of what one's personal beliefs are we need to come together with our common future in mind and realize that one size most certainly does not fit all. He believes in God, she likes girls, they like Dick Cheney, and the rest of us where black every Monday. To each their own and to none the power over the rest of us. A perfect world does not exist. We need to accept personal responsibility and takes steps every day to make our world a better place. For me a better place is one in which everyone has opportunity, and I believe that is what we have now. We need to seize the day, every day.
(and we need very strong soapboxes because they tend to get lots of use)
Shawn in AZ, with you man. Some of these people remind me of the proverbial shipwrecked sailor who, upon seeing the rescue boat, refuses help by declaring "I'm waiting for God to help me!"
"We need to accept personal responsibility and takes steps every day to make our world a better place. For me a better place is one in which everyone has opportunity, and I believe that is what we have now. We need to seize the day, every day.
(and we need very strong soapboxes because they tend to get lots of use)"
That is exactly what is wrong with religion ,keep the people ignorant and stupid, so you can control them with fear that some f$#$% god is going to send them to hell.
Do not do anything god will take care of it, well woiht that way of thinking whay wipe your ass , because if god wanted you to have a clean ass he would have made it self cleaing moron.
The last thing that the 'police department for the world' (the United States) needs to be doing is worrying about and/or spending money on an event that has only the most infinitesmal chance of ever occurring in the forseeable future. While hundreds of near-earth objects intersect the planet's orbit in any given year, a large body capable of cataclysmic damage hits the Earth perhaps once every 50,000 years at most ( meteor crater in northern Arizona is one of them). Frankly, the way that humans are treating the Earth, our species will very probably destroy itself and the planet long before any object from outer space does the job.
It may be true that a large body capable of cataclysmic damage hits the Earth perhaps once every 50,000 years at most but did you consider that the last one might have passed by 49,999 years ago?
LOL, I love the part where you say it "has only the most infinitesmal chance of ever occurring in the forseeable future."
That's just funny to me.
But honestly big objects DO impact Earth. Regardless of whether or not they are "Earth-enders" (like the Arizona impact) is beside the point, It's just good sense to know whats out there and to catalog it and if possible put together an action plan in the event of a known threat. What's so friggin' difficult about this idea??
Whenever I read an article about the possibility of an asteroid strike, it is always in terms of deflecting the asteroid. What would be so much better and far more constructive would be to bring an asteroid on a collision course with the Earth into an orbit around the Earth. It could then be used as a permanent satellite base or the core of a space colony.
Such an asteroid would be specially useful if it were to be parked in the Lagrange 5 point between the Earth and Moon. This is a point in space where the gravitational pull of the Earth and Moon pretty much balance each other out. Objects in the Lagrange 5 point tend to stay there because of the gravitational equilibrium.
Some asteroid fragments that have fallen to Earth have been as much as 80% useful metal, iron and nickel mostly but other metals have been present. Such an asteroid parked in an Earth orbit could be mined for its metal content.
I like your idea for a lot of reasons, but mostly it shows the "anything can be accomplished" attitude we need more of in the American space program and just in life in general. Attitude is everything. But the logistics just aren't on your side here. Put anything between Earth and the Moon and I guarantee people will not be happy (if for no other reason that just the fact that you've put a big dot in front of the beautiful full moon). But that's okay, there are other Lagrange points. But hey why stop there? As long as we have total control over the asteroid why don't we just bring it to rest softly on the moons surface? from there we could build a base camp around it and mine the heck out of it and bring the useful material back to Earth.
The real engineering challenge (out of the many this idea would require) is to gain full control over the asteroid. any thoughts about how to do that? It would be much easier to deflect an asteroid than to control one.
the easiest thing to do is gravitationally influence it. calculate its trajectory and send a probe out when it's far enough away to "tow" it back. The problem is slowing it down enough so it settles in to orbit
by "tow" i mean perturb it gravitationally enough to change its course.
Hmmm...... that might depend on the size of the asteroid. Wouldn't want it to affect our planet's tides in any way, would we? Although a 10km wide asteroid probably wouldn't have much gravitational pull.
Fission or fusion bombs of an appropriate yield could be used to adjust the course of an asteroid and bring it into orbit around the Earth. Rockets would be prohibitively expensive because you would have to haul an enormous amount of fuel into orbit to move an asteroid with rockets. Nuclear bombs have an enormously greater energy potential per unit of weight compared to chemical rockets.
A relatively small asteroid would rarely pass across the moon's face. I can't imagine anyone getting upset about occasionally seeing a small speck travel in front of the moon,... but then people are weird. :)
I can't see much point in dropping the asteroid on the moon. If you are going to mine on the moon, why not just mine the moon itself? The value in having an asteroid in Earth orbit is that it gives you a low gravity platform to use as a space station or space colony. Once you are down on the moon, you have the problems of escape velocity from a gravity well.
In a low gravity orbital position, you can mine your asteroid with solar power since the sun is shining constantly in space. Parabolic mirrors can be constructed by inflating large balloons with gas, then coating them with a material to harden them. The insides are sprayed with a reflective material and then they are simply carved into two curved mirrors. The mirrors focus sunlight to smelt the metal out of the rock. Since you are at the top of Earth's gravity well, you just drop your refined metal down to Earth, guided by small rockets for a water landing, then raise your smelted ore by attaching and inflating balloons to it.
The USA could do this sort of thing with the money that is spent on endless wars. Americans could be drowning in wealth instead of killing foreigners and waiting for their food stamps to arrive.
Try a couple of thought experiments. There are ways of moving asteroids into new orbits. Chucking nuclear weapons in their path, using solar powered shunts and tugs, cutting them up and hoping none of the resulting fragments pepper the planet etc. That would move one or two. But removing one on the path to hitting earth is just one relatively easy bit. The harder bit might well be working out what this does to all the other orbits of the other rocks we have not previously considered a threat
Mining? Yes a good idea but what is the cost/benefit analysis telling you? It would need to be a truely rare commodity to justify the cost. I am also curious about these parabolic balloons: how do you stop them becoming spherical? But a very attractive alternative to those endless wars.
You blow your balloon up into a sphere first, then harden it. Starting with a sphere you can cut a parabolic mirror of whatever size you need to get the desired focal length. I believe the focal point of a hemispherical mirror is at the center point of the diameter of the cut side. The focal point gets further and further out as you cut a parabolic section smaller than a hemisphere.
However, the surface of the inside face (the part you will silver to form a mirror) has less and less area of course as the cut section becomes less and less hemispherical. So the mirror gathers less and less light as the focal length increases. There is probably an optimum size and an engineer could figure it out.
The metal in an asteroid need not be rare if there were enough of it. Ask someone in the mining business what a lump of iron ore a half mile across and 80% usable metal would be worth. Don't forget that you would be refining it in orbit with endless free solar energy and can deliver it to pretty much any point on Earth.
We are approaching 7 billion people on this planet, and if no population controls are put in place, that will turn into 9 million fairly fast, and at that point, we will be fishing out the oceans and turning the arable land to dust. The biggest problem facing us, is us, and that's for certain, not speculation. In the face of worldwide starvation and disease, an asteroid strike 'cleaning the slate' will simply be a swifter alternative to slow, painful attrition.
... Come to think of it, a large asteroid impact similar to the one that ended the age of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago would be just the perfect thing to rid the Earth of the biggest threat that it has ever had ... humanity. Total population control in a cosmic moment
According to the US Census Bureau, the Earth's population since 1950 has been changing as follows:
1950 = 2.56 billion
1960 = 3.04 billion
1970 = 3.71 billion
1980 = 4.45 billion
1990 = 5.28 billion
2000 = 6.08 billion
2010 = 6.83 billion
Projecting into the future we get:
2020 = 7.56 billion
2030 = 8.20 billion
2040 = 8.75 billion
2050 = 9.20 billion
The projections may even be conservative, since the historical figures from 1950 to 2010 show the population doubling in about 35 years. That would mean a world population of about 13.6 billion people by 2045.
All human beings might want to stop for a moment and think of the implications of these numbers to themselves, their children, their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Where will all these people live? What will they eat? What will they wear? What will they do for work? Where will their heating fuel come from? And so on,....
Americans might want to stop and realize that these figures mean that the USA, as it exists today, will probably be overwhelmed and annihilated in a flood of immigration. The US cannot control illegal immigrations currently and what seems like a huge flood of immigrants today will be perceived as a moderate problem to a minor annoyance in the decades to come. When the very hungry and hopeless billions see the US as a place to get something, when they currently have nothing; they will be flooding across the border like a plague of locusts, innumerable and unstoppable.
We should be looking to space to create the endless flood of wealth that is available from space technologies. We should (each and every Earthling) get our endless breeding under control. We should be working together it avert the coming calamity, rather than spending our energy on killing each other in endless wars. We should,... but I don't believe we will.
Enjoy the paradise of living in a wealthy country while you can folks. Your grandchildren and great grandchildren will likely be battling each other with clubs to win a few cans of stale dog food for their days rations or eating each other because there is no other food to be had.
From asteroids to Malthus is one fell swoop. Population doubling rfates are very easy to make use of unless you want something that makes scientific sense. The UN projections are basically built up from various national sets of projections with a bit of creativity in the process. But there is no reason to dismiss them (on this occasion) as conservative since we are seing fertility rates plummet in vast areas of the planet and much of the continued growth is coming from population ageing and declining mortality rates. The more interesting question is what proportion of the population will be of working age (say 15-85) and how many people will be dependent. Fear of immigrantion will vanish as every country in the world satarts clawing over each other to get as many migrants as they can. And if you mean the US as "wealthy" just try going down town in Newark or in the deep south and see if you still think that.
Robo if you don't think down town in Newark or in the deep south is wealthy, pay a visit to somewhere like the Dharavi slum in Mumbai, India (with something like 600,000 to 1 million people living on 0.7 square miles of land) and see if you still think that.
Like most people in wealthy nations, you don't understand what real poverty is. When food prices go up in the USA, people eat more fast food and gain weight. In a state of real poverty, when food prices go up, you decide which of your children you can't afford to feed today or you sell one child into slavery so the rest can survive.
They can do this that and the other thing.. but they ain't gonna stop it. they don't have a chance.
the thing doesn't know the meaning of gravity, it can hit this planet, out the other side b4 they knew what hit it. leaving a big ole hole in the planet. then they scramble.
outter space tells Them.. they don't have a say. it's out of their league. hazard a guess, is what they can do.
This Administration is shameless. An asteroid striking the United States? The math is impossible, the probability astronomical, and the likelihood nil. With the Earth rotating at 1,100 miles per hour on its axis, the Earth traversing the Sun, how in God's green acre could anyone with a half a brain predict that an asteroid might hit The United States? I can see maybe claiming a strike on the planet, but to say one specific spot on the planet is ridiculous. These democrats are in orbit.
It's called statistics, Rock. Eventually, it's virtually certain to happen. One of these events is what killed off the dinosaurs. Right now we don't quite have the technology to prevent it, but is there much doubt in your mind that in 200 years the human race will be able to defend itself againt these intruders?
This administration INCREASED NASA's budget, grandpa. By about 3 billion dollars actually. But don't let that stop your disturbingly blind hatred of Obama.
And yes, the sleazier administration was Bush II, who promised Constellation (like he promised No Child Left Behind), all the while severely underfunding it.
Jherek, with thinking like Rock's - yep, eyeliner wins hands down. But Rock does have a point - the chance of one randomly selected chunk of rock hitting the US as suggested is infinitesimally small. However, there are many many millions of bits of rock out there all on different orbits. The chance of getting hit by one of them suddenly is no longer small. And among of all the bits we know about and have classified as NEOs the chance is even greater. So Rock is right - it is just right about the wrong question.
Read between the lines here people, I know some of you see it and I wish more of you did, there have been several NEO's in the past 3 years that got too close for comfort, I honestly dont recall the news ever reporting those events. Cherish your family and friends and get ready for Web-bot predictions to come true.
Some over aged humans would neglect to care that fairy tales need actions greater than blind fold guessing games. this story is brain wash for the forced currency trade for the half fact sold. anyway, things that fall out of the sky could thin the human race without government deceit conflicts. nothing is worse than human made space junk spinning like hot titanium razorblades out of the black n' blue. the space junk needs more attention than the threats that waste resources.
let those chunks fall on earths lap, humans are chicken'd stupid to waste earth resources until induced death anyway.
id like the meteor resource to fall on earth, so neighbor bad habit of evil practice behind law doesn't get away with human murder w/ deceit tricks instead.
i need those falling stone showers to stop human clown distractions. bozo's wanted to crash another human existence with its dead jokes. Beware of the empty space in the earth sky, Human CLOWN! the rock shall fall on all craniums with resource nonsense
What BS...NASA has been a front for govt funds going elsewhere forever. The public needs to get wise. How often in recorded history have meteorites hit the earth? We can't protect from hurricanes and they are going to come up with a "meteorite plan"???
So tired of hearing about the hurricane, it's not like they weren't warned DAYS in advance. Who the hell says the governments respondsible for helping you. Get off your ass and get on the bus headed north. Don't wait, be proactive. Not feeling sorry for New Orleans anymore.
Hey Dee, NASA's budget this year is only $19 billion.
If you think following the word "only with the words "$19 billion" is stupid, then have a look at the National Debt Clock to get some perspective on exactly how much money the US government spends: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
If the US government was going to "launder" money, they would do it through the defense budget which is roughly equal to the amount of money collected in Federal income tax. As Brent Spiner's character pointed out in the movie "Independence Day": "You don't really think the Pentagon pays $100 apiece for hammers do you?"
Too funny! "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" It is only because we now have some capability of possibly doing something about the observably remote possibility of a significant asteroid strike that we allow ourselves to get worked up about it. Similarly, it is only because we have NO current capability of possibly doing ANYTHING about the sun going nova that we do not throw money down a hole fretting about that factual eventuality.
Here's a thought. Let's make everybody pay asteroid insurance and delude ourselves into thinking we have done a good and noble thing.
The office that they propose to set up will probably be a Cabinet level one. That means that whomever is president will pick it's Director. It will become just another political dumping ground for someone that has zip in the way of experience but did help elect the president. Remember Katrina, FEMA and Bush? "You're doing a heck of a job Brownie." I can't wait-I just can't wait.
There have been some really nifty ideas tossed about here concerning NEO's. When does the shuttle leave? I'm ready, lets go! Moon bases? Check! Blasting asteroids while flying space fighters? Rocks Hot! ;) ... In all seriousness now, why not just "tag" the NEO's with a transmitter and feed data back to those quantum computers and then plan the mining operations. & Billion people on the planet? We are going to have to move out into the stars eventually!
My favorite Si-Fi movie quote: Our budget allows us to cover 3% of the sky. It's a big damn sky!
What we need is to have a big orbiting tugboat type engine platform, that is ready to head out and attach itself to an incoming object if we detect one. Once attached it would push/pull the object out of a trajectory that will hit us. Using nuclear bombs wont work, but a big ion engine would do the trick.
I have no problem paying taxes towards taking care of things. Or taking care of people in need either. We get a better, safer world to live in, with less misery and suffering. Its money well spent. Better spent than wasted on fancy dinners or new dvd players. I despise selfish people.
Mr Marley, you are about the only hairless bipedal hominid that I have heard from today. I do not understand how people who do not believe in this "God" are angry at those who do, rather than being pleasantly detached as am I.
Here's hoping your species does survive, and you all learn to chill out a little.
2 suggestions....now is the time to stock up on duck tape, batteries, and bottled water...and maybe we should invade the moon and search out their weapons of mass destruction, then we can move Wall St. up there!
Wouldn't hurt to ask Christine and Sarah about this; one can probably see it in her crystal ball, the other can probably see it from her house!
@ Commons...haha...That is funny...In Baltimore,they will be stocking up on "terlet" paper bread and milk...Not sure if they know what "duct" tape is...
OK, before the LIBERAL DEMOCRATS want to close down any of the U.S.A.F. ICBM Bases. I don't want the scenario, LIBERAL DEMOCRATS wring their hands over a Rock or Snow Cone baring down on EARTH, when the LIBERAL DEMOCRATS TAKE the U.S.A.F. Budget AWAY! Does not matter what the U.S.A.F. uses Missiles or Lasers but its their job to knock the ROCKS and SNOW CONES DOWN! Do not have the United States trying to build the WHEEL ALL OVER, because the LIBERAL DEMOCRATS CUT THE DEFENSE BUDGET!
And Conservative Republicans cut the VA budget - cuz, after all, those pesky vets already served their purpose.
I could ask you to do even the tiniest bit of research to realize the sheer impossibility of a Missle or Laser actually doing a significant amount of damage to either a) blow up the asteroid - which would in that case rain down 1000's of shards with completely unpredictable trajectories or b)change the orbit of the asteroid, in which case would be the equivalent of throwing a rock at a tornado and expecting it to suddenly change course. I could ask you to do the research, but I believe that you are like too many people in American suffering from inattentional blindness.
Because of the sheer waste of money that an missile or laser strike presents - you, as a conservative - should be up in arms about the suggestiion of such a misuse of goverment funds
Holdren states that NASA must continue leading efforts to close the gap in detecting and perhaps deflecting near-Earth objects (NEO).
Guess who needs more taxpayer funding?
Look out Haiti, there's a NEO coming your way! [This message brought to you by the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, NASA and the Ad Council.]
Asteroids have hit the earth in the past and they will do so in the future. The one that hit Siberia early in the last century could wipe out a state. the one that hit 65 million years ago would end civilization as we know it.
We should find and track these objects just for the sake of survival. Nobody could do anything about the Siberian impact but we are at the point that we could deflect something like that today.
What the He## is going on in this country with the fear factor? Our government is trying awful hard to keep us in a state of fear. Just as GW is being proved that it's not being caused by humans, they start up with the arctic melting and now this. People the only thing we have to fear right now is our government(past and present) who can't seem to run our country correctly. Please vote!!!
There is nothing wrong with assessing threats that are real and preparing for them.
Asteroid impacts present a real threat, even if an asteroid big enough to destroy a city and kill thousands of people only comes along every few centuries. It's worth putting together a program to detect an intercept them.
We saw the damage that can be caused by a "once-in-a-century" hurricane with Katrina. It would have been worth spending a couple billion on better levees and disaster preparedness.
Or, do objects in outer space not exist? Maybe astronomy is one big liberal conspiracy...
I think it's fine to look for hazards in space, however if it costs the government a lot to do I'd say don't do it.
If you want to watch the sky, here's how you do it: Get colleges and independent sky watchers to log into a sky-watch site and log their observations there. It's a very low cost means to get the info.
You want to stop the asteroids? Good luck. I think it's a bit of a lark to assume that we can predict the trajectory well enough and intercept an object quick enough to make a difference. We can spend billions more that we don't have in an attempt to create an intercept platform, but how good is it if it doesn't quite succeed? Directs the asteroid into the ocean vs. a US city- result: Massive tsunami and deaths around the globe vs. obliteration of millions locally. Look, I don't want people to die, but we can't assume that we are able to pull this off.
We couldn't protect ourselves from an astroid hit if we tried.
If Bill Clinton who is the U.N. Ambassador to Haiti, can't even prevent a collara outbreak while he goes campaigning for politicians. What makes you think we could prevent an astroid hit?
Now that i have said that, this articles will disappear..lol...just watch
Maybe an astroid should hit earth...lol
How exactly is global warming being proven to not be caused by humans?
Please share the proof, because I must have missed it?
But I have to ask you... even IF it was found to be part of a natural cycle, one that will affect us in a very negative way (food shortages, droughts, etc...) and if it is KNOWN that certain actions of people, and industry will contribute to, and ACCELERATE the process... make it worse, make it happen fater... don't you think we should examine how we act, and perhaps change a few patterns of behavior...if they will help... even a little? Not for your sake or mine... but for our children, and grandchildren?
The proof was reported on this MSNBC site with two different stories. Both agreed that the sun is the problem. The whole GW issue is a Mother Nature thing which has happened numerous times. True, we need to stop trashing our planet but we are not the cause of GW.
This doesn't seem like fear mongering to me. It has never seemed like fear mongering. First of all I'm not afraid. You'd have to have a brain like plain white pudding to be afraid of this kind of thing. I have a telescope, a pretty crappy one, and I can look for myself. If I ever see one with what looks like a trajectory that could hit Earth, then it will be too late. The odds of me finding an asteroid that will impact Earth are simply astronomical.
But look at the reality of this situation. Congress said "hey let's look around and see if anything is going to smash into us from space." They use a few billion dollars and a lot of scientists sit around and predict trajectories over vast periods of time. Once you know all there is to know about an asteroid you really don't have to watch the asteroid anymore. You then can simply watch for unexpected changes in the orbits. I don't know the system they are using for this but even I could imagine a pretty simple inexpensive way of accomplishing this task.
It's a good idea to make a log of any potential threat to the planet. It's not fear-mongering at it's heart. sure, some people probably will use it for that end but fear-mongering comes from people with nefarious purposes and there's not a lot anyone can do to prevent them from doing it. You can vote the current chumps out but they will be replaced by other chumps. That said I still encourage EVERYONE to go out and vote. In recent years our political system has been voted on by less than 2/3's of the people capable of voting (and that's being generous). So, yes, get out and vote.
I am an optimist and even I would be surprised if America could reliably deflect an asteroid. But does that mean we shouldn't try?? NO!
I think Joey makes a great point of letting people make observations on their own and putting it all into a database to save taxpayer dollars. But having said that I also feel it was a great idea for congress to mandate that NASA track 90% of these things in the short amount of time that they did. The hard work is basically taken care of now we just need to focus on getting the last 10%.
The government does monger fear, so it's up to us to not be afraid. And like I said, if you are afraid that the sky will fall anytime soon then you've got bigger problems than the sky falling.
I'm not afraid, we all have to die someday. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought they were shutting down NASA?
lol, you are wrong. They are NOT shutting down NASA. I can't believe anyone would actually think that. Even if you only read one NASA related story for the whole year I can't imagine coming away with that bad of an understanding of what's happening at NASA.
Just to clarify NASA is NOT being shut down. The space Shuttle fleet IS being retired. The Shuttles have been America's manned space back bone for almost 30 years. But as NASA prepares to retool it is necessary to develop new systems for all the different purposes being proposed. For example, George W. Bush decided to shut down the Shuttle program so we could invest in the Constellation program. That program included the Ares rockets. Obama decided to put America's space program on a "flexible path". This meant that instead of the rock solid goal of going to the moon (as was the case for Constellation) NASA could have options. The current option that is being entertained is the goal of sending human beings to an asteroid by 2025 (it could happen sooner depending on which asteroid we choose). Also NASA has been given the task of monitoring Earths climate from space. NASA (and it's departments, like JPL, Aimes Research, etc..) has and will continue to be a world leader in satellite manufacture and launch and operations. NASA does a lot with education and research. NASA has a lot on it's plate and it's an old administration that is going through some growing pains right now, but it is most certainly NOT shutting down.
Going to the Moon was not the only goal for Constellation. I just wanted to clarify that a little further.
SHAWN - check this out: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/05/start-here/
Shawn
" I think it's a bit of a lark to assume that we can predict the trajectory well enough and intercept an object quick enough to make a difference"
Actually, we have been able to track the trajectory of both Voyager probes well outside our solar system... As of August 2009, Voyager 1 was over 16.5 terameters (16.5 × 1012 meters, or 16.5 × 109 km, 110.7 AU, or 10.2 billion miles) from the Sun
So I dont see why, with enough observation, we could not do the same with an asteroid...
Simpleba
Please don't use numbers or any real data here. Only 5% of people who went to public schools in the US will understand what you are talking about. Just say: "God did it." and you will be accepted. ;-)
80% of my statistics are false half of the time but one third of the people reading this "don't like fractions" anyhow so I think a beer is in order.
Cheers!
LOL
On the other hand, if it can be determined that an asteroid is headed for Dallas Texas, home of GWB, for example, we could encourage more right wing tea bagging Republicans to move there.
Sounds like a proper use for that evil science, Astronomy.
If it's big enough.....it doesn't have to strike the U.S. to affect the entire planet. We would be foolish not to try to enhance our ability to find every one of these potential threats. It's like Kennedy driving through Dealey Plaza with the top down when his body guards told him it's a bad idea but he ignored any potential threats too. We will get Whacked one of these days. It's just a matter of when, and if we have the chance to see it coming, well in advance, at least we could try to change its course.
I will add this article to my folder with the one about the United Nations formulating an Alien Greeting Team (I wonder if the team has went to the U.S.~Mexican border to test their greetings).
They should go together very nicely.
I agree--if the damn rock is going to hit us so be it, I'm more concerned by the economy, the unemployment, and the do nothing but provide mouth service government. How many dollars do they want for this fiasco?
Ignore SHAWN and his anti-climate change demagoguery. He mentions the MSNBC articles, but fails to recount that the scientists in the article specifically stated that solar cycle can't account for ALL of the accelerated warming. He hopes you didn't read the articles or has forgotten them.
And YES we can predict asteroid trajectories quite accurately. Astrometry allows us to send probes to distant planets. Imagine how difficult is would be to land a probe on Saturn's moon Titan if our astrometrics were poorly understood.
Using current technology, we probably couldn't destroy an asteroid headed for Earth, but if we're lucky maybe we could steer it into the Middle East!
-Just kidding
I hope it doesn't come tomorrow, I've got stuff to do.
@SHAWN-you are right about this huge effort by the powers-that-be to keep average Americans in a state of constant fear--it's been going on in full force since 9/11. Fear = votes. Fear = ratings. Fear = purchases. Fear is big business in this country.
After all the effort the government has put into intentionally dumbing us all down (on-going since the Nixon administration), keeping us afraid all the time is a walk in the park for them. It's easy. And the worst part is that no matter who we vote in, you can bet these scare tactics will continue. The difference between a democrat and a republican is like the difference between a red chevy tahoe & a blue chevy tahoe--they may talk a good game of "differences", but once their in, the only real changes will be superficial and basically meaningless to the lives of most Americans.
If you stop and really think about what COULD be done to improve our country as opposed to what IS actually being done, I promise it won't take long until you're so angry that you blow your stack. For instance, why are we spending 3 trillion dollars in Iraq & Afghanastan while most of us here at home are circling the bowl? WTF is up w/that?! Oh yeah, because they scared everyone into believing we have to kill all these supposed "terrorists" or they're gonna come and kill all of us. I'm sick to death of this BS! All of it! And I bet about 90% of my fellow Americans feel the same way. So, now what?
(Sorry for getting off topic...)
Since Holdren is all for population control through forced abortion, forced sterilization, and taking illegitimate children from their mothers, it would seem he would be happy to have a chunk of rock take out a significant portion of the population.
http://zombietime.com/john_holdren/
While I don't disagree with monitoring the sky as best we can, I'll take my science advice from someone that shouldn't be thrown out of the White House.
SHAWN-13874699
Please quote a indisputable source stating irrefutably that global warming is not being contributed to by the presence of our species....
Sounds like just another waste of Billions of dollars that could be spent elsewhere. Ummm hold that thought- will it create Jobs and will they be Green jobs? If so. then full speed ahead- let the Billions flow
you must have been a pubic school student shawn... sounds like your speaking from experiance
Chronic, do they have pubic schools in your area? We had to learn by self study.
Carl.. can you please go tell NASA. so they can sink some "solid" money into it, instead of with robobozo, at a cost of..?..over 2 million. and a chance of that Asteroid you mentioned , or other space matter up there, may getchas' up there, and we don't like to see our tax trillion dollars being used the way they are. We'd have to work extra hard and longer to pay up the raised taxes to keep you in operation.
and while yer there? can you please let NASA = Gov't , know, we have men, women, children and animals dying down here, starved to death.? and we can sure use some money, for food. did i mention, "working people" need food stamps?
It is the Obama threat we are worried about not the asteroid.
Sigh..... pathetic political propaganda
This is the technology and science section.... go find a political article to comment on.
I thought I'd be safe to review comments from readers on a Tech/Science news. The extremist pap is really getting on my nerve. Ignorant lemmings.....let me diect you to the nearest cliff to run off of. Then you won't have to worry about global warming at all.
It is difficult for some folks to let go of their petty differences. Because the article at hand comes from the White House science adviser we will inevitably get a over-dose of people's comments filled with anti-white house rhetoric. This is nothing new for those of us who stick to the science and technology side of the news. We often come here hoping we can avoid the slack-jawed ignorance that comes with unshakable political views.
It's slightly amusing to me that someone with a screen name like "HearMyTruth" would speak using "we" instead of "I". Shouldn't it be "hearOURtruth"... but I suppose that is just semantics.
There will always be political garbage to wade through on issues like this one. The article talks about a guy who wants there to be policy in place that assures we will be prepared in case of an impact. Well, when it comes to policy talk you will see all the tea partiers and the Obama lovers and the Bush haters and all the other Policy wonks out there. Like a bug zapper they will come to these places and leave their opinions up for everyone to see. And as has been done here it's up to us to let them know that those opinions are worthless. If I used the phrase "Obama threat" or "Palin threat" or "Bush threat" or what ever politician you happen to like or dislike then I'd hope you'd all jump on my case and let me know what an idiot I am. Even if this was a political article that kind of talk is idiocy. They are all politicians and for any of them to be a threat to America would put them out of a job.
SO, some people(not me) would say: When's Obama leaving.
Very true, we were sinking when in came into office and I'd say were about offically sunk at this point, the horizan is bleak
earth gets hit every day with no effect to plant life ...its the big ones that scary the rich folks ...have those guys go up and start cutting these big rocks in 1/2 s
well, that's one option. The trick is how does one cut an asteroid in half. I agree that smaller objects, generally speaking, cause less damage, especially if the burn up entirely. So in that respect it's a great idea. But, apply that idea to a very large object. Say there's a rock 10 kilometers in diameter (6.214 miles wide). It's careening in towards southern Nebraska (dead center of the U.S.). What do you use to cut it in half? Lasers? A bomb? How you cut it in half directly affects the outcome.
It appears that the earth was struck by an astroid earlier this month (Oct. 8). Details are just emerging now about the impact, which can be found here.
No need to worry because when the big one hits again, the population will never know, until after the fact. The World Order don't want the public to panic; resulting in the breakdown of law and order.
Read more: http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=35799&forum=47#ixzz138ZCGM00
Astronomers say reports that the Earth could be struck by a small asteroid in 2030 are wildly exaggerated. BBC News 4 November, 2000, 22:15 GMT
Less than a day after sounding the alert about asteroid 2000SG344, a revised analysis of the space rock's orbit shows it will in fact miss the Earth by about five million kilometres (three million miles).
However, astronomers will continue to monitor the asteroid, which was picked up in Sep 2000 and thought to be 30 - 70 metres (100-230 feet) across.
Some scientists have criticised the IAU and Nasa for releasing warnings about the asteroid only for those warnings to be rescinded less than a day later.
We should send miners up to cut the rock into small pieces which can then be brought to earth and mined for anything of value. : )
There are bizarre political messages in the report - but that should not detract from the reality of the situation. The US is not the only country with the technology to detect these objects but it makes sense for one central agency to collate all the information and share it with everyone else - indeed there is an obligation to work together. It is this point which the report seems to have missed - for planetary threats it makes sense for everyone to share technology and information. Politically there may be some different agendas that prevent this. But we can scale this thought up and down as we will, the fact remains that in the immediate future anyway we have but one bit of space rock we can use as a life support system, so it makes sense for us all to protect it. It doesn't matter whether it is destruction threatened by global warming caused by several current life forms here (including humans - primarily humans and ants as it happens) or external threats like NEOs - the point is we are all in it together.
AC Robertson,
That happened last year... not 2 weeks ago. It was also estimated to be 16 to 30 feet across, so I doubt anyone knew about it until after it exploded. We can't hardly find 1km across asteroids, let alone 16 to 30 feet across. Quit with the conspiracy talk.
mob?.. that's NASAs' job to figure it out, so noone gets hurt. but they've been busy with robobozo u know.........they don't have a dime to spare for Anyone on the planet.
pretty bad ,i say. i don't know how they sleep at night. maybe it's that a hefty paycheck.
goin up to space to find another plant to set up shop. leave us with the mess? nuthin to do up there anyways, can't breath the air. ooooo boy. what a waste of money.
I think the point to this whole thing is that we may (I emphasize MAY) be able to prevent a NEO from hitting Earth and doing damage if we detect it early enough. (The science for this is really cool. It involves quantum computers and som really neat physics.)
Did you know you have a greater chance of dying from an asteroid or comet impact than from getting hit by lightning? That's because lightining only kills one or two people on average when it strikes. However, when the asteroid or comet comes it could kill millions or even billions.
Check out the book "Death From the Skies" by Phil Plait. (Sorry, but he doesn't get political).
PS - The scientific consensus (meaning 99.9% of scientists agree) is that humans ARE causing or at leat accelerating global warming. Sorry everyone.
You need to go to places other than the IPCC for your information.
The CO2 levels are about the same TODAY as they were prior to the industrial revolution.
In 1942 the CO2 levels were higher than 400ppm.
According to thousands of CO2 measurements conducted by real scientist around the World.
see (Beck, 2008, “50 Years of Continuous Measurement of CO2 on Mauna Loa” Energy and Environment, Vol 19, No.7.)
local case study, it should not be used for data analyses, your measuring next to a volcano that erupt CO2. This makes for a corrupt data set.
they can't get the weather right, i don't know if i trust them with something delcate as this.
I don't care at all about knowing if something is heading our way and I don't want my tax dollars spent to find out. Whatever happens, happens. God is in control.
m
Thank you for proving my point that America has become a dumb, lazy, and superstitious society.
Personally, I think the Easter Bunny is in control.
Hail Zeus!
Go just spoke to me and said that he wants you to immediately sit in a hot bathtub and slash your wrists m-612920. Please don't question this because then you would be doubting the Will of God. Just have faith and do as he wishes to do and you will find yourself in heaven afterwards. Don't question, just instantly believe and have faith in God's will.
Shawn, please don't lump the rest of us in with that guy. Please.
I do care about knowing if "something is heading our way" and I do want his tax dollars spent to find out. ...okay and my tax dollars too.
Whatever happens, happens... maybe a truckload of Phil Plait books will fall off an over pass while m-612920 is directly below. He won't care though because he's completely calm and at peace with his maker but it would be shame to damage the books.
What would the Easter Bunny do? ...jump out of the way.
mob (and m)
Sorry if I was harsh but the possibility of preventing our extinction so our great grandchildren will exist trumps a few bucks in taxes. It bugs me when the religious talk as if the second coming is tomorrow so we just keep making messes that we don't think we'll be around to clean up. OUR KIDS WILL though. One day, very soon, our children are going to turn to us and say: "You could have prevented this, but you didn't. Why?"
Do we blame the republicans/Democrats/Gays/Illegal immigrants? Our do we finally start pointing the finger at ourselves?
Okay I'm getting off the soapbox now.
No Shawn don't get off the soapbox. I'm right there with you. I actually do want my tax dollars spent on these kinds of things. I have always been the type to accept blame where blame is due and it bothers me that the world I've grown up in is one problem after another that is handed down from generation to generation. Where does it all end?
Here we are, with all this technological know-how, making breakthroughs in various fields of science on what seems like a daily basis. Are we really going to hand our children a future with no social security, unmanageable national debt, failing educational systems, a sub-par transit system (in my opinion), and endless reruns of 'Two and a half men'?
The future can be bright. It's up to us to make it so. And regardless of what one's personal beliefs are we need to come together with our common future in mind and realize that one size most certainly does not fit all. He believes in God, she likes girls, they like Dick Cheney, and the rest of us where black every Monday. To each their own and to none the power over the rest of us. A perfect world does not exist. We need to accept personal responsibility and takes steps every day to make our world a better place. For me a better place is one in which everyone has opportunity, and I believe that is what we have now. We need to seize the day, every day.
(and we need very strong soapboxes because they tend to get lots of use)
Looking at our society--I'd say Gods on a permanent vacation!
Shawn in AZ, with you man. Some of these people remind me of the proverbial shipwrecked sailor who, upon seeing the rescue boat, refuses help by declaring "I'm waiting for God to help me!"
mob_barley
"We need to accept personal responsibility and takes steps every day to make our world a better place. For me a better place is one in which everyone has opportunity, and I believe that is what we have now. We need to seize the day, every day.
(and we need very strong soapboxes because they tend to get lots of use)"
EXCELLENT comments- with you 100%. Thanks
That is exactly what is wrong with religion ,keep the people ignorant and stupid, so you can control them with fear that some f$#$% god is going to send them to hell.
Do not do anything god will take care of it, well woiht that way of thinking whay wipe your ass , because if god wanted you to have a clean ass he would have made it self cleaing moron.
You obviously didn't read the part where God gave man dominion over all the Earth!
getreal-2030452, there's a difference between the dominion of a slave's master and...say....a park ranger?
um .. jherek? i'm thinkin satan is with you. because what you just described is not only disturbing, it is Not what God is saying.
You are saying it....... i strongly suggest you get some help.
Yes White House, a asteriod is coming....it's called the Republican Party.
Yeah, a MONSTER TRUCK asteroid driven by baby NASCAR Jesus. Go somewhere else and let other people think for you!
That rock already crashed and burned, its sitting down in Crawford, Texas.
What happened to this being a scientific forum and keeping the politics out of it? Hypocrites!
The last thing that the 'police department for the world' (the United States) needs to be doing is worrying about and/or spending money on an event that has only the most infinitesmal chance of ever occurring in the forseeable future. While hundreds of near-earth objects intersect the planet's orbit in any given year, a large body capable of cataclysmic damage hits the Earth perhaps once every 50,000 years at most ( meteor crater in northern Arizona is one of them). Frankly, the way that humans are treating the Earth, our species will very probably destroy itself and the planet long before any object from outer space does the job.
Peace, Prometheus
It may be true that a large body capable of cataclysmic damage hits the Earth perhaps once every 50,000 years at most but did you consider that the last one might have passed by 49,999 years ago?
LOL, I love the part where you say it "has only the most infinitesmal chance of ever occurring in the forseeable future."
That's just funny to me.
But honestly big objects DO impact Earth. Regardless of whether or not they are "Earth-enders" (like the Arizona impact) is beside the point, It's just good sense to know whats out there and to catalog it and if possible put together an action plan in the event of a known threat. What's so friggin' difficult about this idea??
yer right steve.. man is self destructing. it's ez to c.
has every one heard of the Grren Comet going backwards and out of the Solar System. ?....forever.
Whenever I read an article about the possibility of an asteroid strike, it is always in terms of deflecting the asteroid. What would be so much better and far more constructive would be to bring an asteroid on a collision course with the Earth into an orbit around the Earth. It could then be used as a permanent satellite base or the core of a space colony.
Such an asteroid would be specially useful if it were to be parked in the Lagrange 5 point between the Earth and Moon. This is a point in space where the gravitational pull of the Earth and Moon pretty much balance each other out. Objects in the Lagrange 5 point tend to stay there because of the gravitational equilibrium.
Some asteroid fragments that have fallen to Earth have been as much as 80% useful metal, iron and nickel mostly but other metals have been present. Such an asteroid parked in an Earth orbit could be mined for its metal content.
I like your idea for a lot of reasons, but mostly it shows the "anything can be accomplished" attitude we need more of in the American space program and just in life in general. Attitude is everything. But the logistics just aren't on your side here. Put anything between Earth and the Moon and I guarantee people will not be happy (if for no other reason that just the fact that you've put a big dot in front of the beautiful full moon). But that's okay, there are other Lagrange points. But hey why stop there? As long as we have total control over the asteroid why don't we just bring it to rest softly on the moons surface? from there we could build a base camp around it and mine the heck out of it and bring the useful material back to Earth.
The real engineering challenge (out of the many this idea would require) is to gain full control over the asteroid. any thoughts about how to do that? It would be much easier to deflect an asteroid than to control one.
the easiest thing to do is gravitationally influence it. calculate its trajectory and send a probe out when it's far enough away to "tow" it back. The problem is slowing it down enough so it settles in to orbit
by "tow" i mean perturb it gravitationally enough to change its course.
hmmm, perhaps tow it back as you say and then have rockets waiting at a certain point (or points) to engage it in a slow down sequence.
Hmmm...... that might depend on the size of the asteroid. Wouldn't want it to affect our planet's tides in any way, would we? Although a 10km wide asteroid probably wouldn't have much gravitational pull.
mob_barley, Shawn in AZ and Jherek Carnelian:
You guys are on a roll- don't stop.
Really great to read all of your possibly useful and futuristic comments.
I am also very into Science so it is fun to read intelligent duscussions for a change.
Thanks again.
Fission or fusion bombs of an appropriate yield could be used to adjust the course of an asteroid and bring it into orbit around the Earth. Rockets would be prohibitively expensive because you would have to haul an enormous amount of fuel into orbit to move an asteroid with rockets. Nuclear bombs have an enormously greater energy potential per unit of weight compared to chemical rockets.
A relatively small asteroid would rarely pass across the moon's face. I can't imagine anyone getting upset about occasionally seeing a small speck travel in front of the moon,... but then people are weird. :)
I can't see much point in dropping the asteroid on the moon. If you are going to mine on the moon, why not just mine the moon itself? The value in having an asteroid in Earth orbit is that it gives you a low gravity platform to use as a space station or space colony. Once you are down on the moon, you have the problems of escape velocity from a gravity well.
In a low gravity orbital position, you can mine your asteroid with solar power since the sun is shining constantly in space. Parabolic mirrors can be constructed by inflating large balloons with gas, then coating them with a material to harden them. The insides are sprayed with a reflective material and then they are simply carved into two curved mirrors. The mirrors focus sunlight to smelt the metal out of the rock. Since you are at the top of Earth's gravity well, you just drop your refined metal down to Earth, guided by small rockets for a water landing, then raise your smelted ore by attaching and inflating balloons to it.
The USA could do this sort of thing with the money that is spent on endless wars. Americans could be drowning in wealth instead of killing foreigners and waiting for their food stamps to arrive.
Try a couple of thought experiments. There are ways of moving asteroids into new orbits. Chucking nuclear weapons in their path, using solar powered shunts and tugs, cutting them up and hoping none of the resulting fragments pepper the planet etc. That would move one or two. But removing one on the path to hitting earth is just one relatively easy bit. The harder bit might well be working out what this does to all the other orbits of the other rocks we have not previously considered a threat
Mining? Yes a good idea but what is the cost/benefit analysis telling you? It would need to be a truely rare commodity to justify the cost. I am also curious about these parabolic balloons: how do you stop them becoming spherical? But a very attractive alternative to those endless wars.
You blow your balloon up into a sphere first, then harden it. Starting with a sphere you can cut a parabolic mirror of whatever size you need to get the desired focal length. I believe the focal point of a hemispherical mirror is at the center point of the diameter of the cut side. The focal point gets further and further out as you cut a parabolic section smaller than a hemisphere.
However, the surface of the inside face (the part you will silver to form a mirror) has less and less area of course as the cut section becomes less and less hemispherical. So the mirror gathers less and less light as the focal length increases. There is probably an optimum size and an engineer could figure it out.
The metal in an asteroid need not be rare if there were enough of it. Ask someone in the mining business what a lump of iron ore a half mile across and 80% usable metal would be worth. Don't forget that you would be refining it in orbit with endless free solar energy and can deliver it to pretty much any point on Earth.
so we;re going to nuke space now? who knows what kind of damage that would cause.
We are approaching 7 billion people on this planet, and if no population controls are put in place, that will turn into 9 million fairly fast, and at that point, we will be fishing out the oceans and turning the arable land to dust. The biggest problem facing us, is us, and that's for certain, not speculation. In the face of worldwide starvation and disease, an asteroid strike 'cleaning the slate' will simply be a swifter alternative to slow, painful attrition.
Have a great weekend, everyone!
Fleep ... you're on to something
... Come to think of it, a large asteroid impact similar to the one that ended the age of the dinosaurs 65 million years ago would be just the perfect thing to rid the Earth of the biggest threat that it has ever had ... humanity. Total population control in a cosmic moment
Peace, Prometheus
thats pretty rough if you say we gonna go from 7 billion to 9 million man thats one hell of a wipe fleep
Hmmm...a population increase from 7 billion to 9 million fairly fast....now that's some scary sh*t!
According to the US Census Bureau, the Earth's population since 1950 has been changing as follows:
1950 = 2.56 billion
1960 = 3.04 billion
1970 = 3.71 billion
1980 = 4.45 billion
1990 = 5.28 billion
2000 = 6.08 billion
2010 = 6.83 billion
Projecting into the future we get:
2020 = 7.56 billion
2030 = 8.20 billion
2040 = 8.75 billion
2050 = 9.20 billion
The projections may even be conservative, since the historical figures from 1950 to 2010 show the population doubling in about 35 years. That would mean a world population of about 13.6 billion people by 2045.
All human beings might want to stop for a moment and think of the implications of these numbers to themselves, their children, their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Where will all these people live? What will they eat? What will they wear? What will they do for work? Where will their heating fuel come from? And so on,....
Americans might want to stop and realize that these figures mean that the USA, as it exists today, will probably be overwhelmed and annihilated in a flood of immigration. The US cannot control illegal immigrations currently and what seems like a huge flood of immigrants today will be perceived as a moderate problem to a minor annoyance in the decades to come. When the very hungry and hopeless billions see the US as a place to get something, when they currently have nothing; they will be flooding across the border like a plague of locusts, innumerable and unstoppable.
We should be looking to space to create the endless flood of wealth that is available from space technologies. We should (each and every Earthling) get our endless breeding under control. We should be working together it avert the coming calamity, rather than spending our energy on killing each other in endless wars. We should,... but I don't believe we will.
Enjoy the paradise of living in a wealthy country while you can folks. Your grandchildren and great grandchildren will likely be battling each other with clubs to win a few cans of stale dog food for their days rations or eating each other because there is no other food to be had.
From asteroids to Malthus is one fell swoop. Population doubling rfates are very easy to make use of unless you want something that makes scientific sense. The UN projections are basically built up from various national sets of projections with a bit of creativity in the process. But there is no reason to dismiss them (on this occasion) as conservative since we are seing fertility rates plummet in vast areas of the planet and much of the continued growth is coming from population ageing and declining mortality rates. The more interesting question is what proportion of the population will be of working age (say 15-85) and how many people will be dependent. Fear of immigrantion will vanish as every country in the world satarts clawing over each other to get as many migrants as they can. And if you mean the US as "wealthy" just try going down town in Newark or in the deep south and see if you still think that.
@ Jherek...Thumbs up...This is why I am a firm believer in natural selection...First Haiti...Who is next...?
Robo if you don't think down town in Newark or in the deep south is wealthy, pay a visit to somewhere like the Dharavi slum in Mumbai, India (with something like 600,000 to 1 million people living on 0.7 square miles of land) and see if you still think that.
Like most people in wealthy nations, you don't understand what real poverty is. When food prices go up in the USA, people eat more fast food and gain weight. In a state of real poverty, when food prices go up, you decide which of your children you can't afford to feed today or you sell one child into slavery so the rest can survive.
They can do this that and the other thing.. but they ain't gonna stop it. they don't have a chance.
the thing doesn't know the meaning of gravity, it can hit this planet, out the other side b4 they knew what hit it. leaving a big ole hole in the planet. then they scramble.
outter space tells Them.. they don't have a say. it's out of their league. hazard a guess, is what they can do.
You might want to work on your spelling and grammar and then study a bit of physics.
my momma said............
This Administration is shameless. An asteroid striking the United States? The math is impossible, the probability astronomical, and the likelihood nil. With the Earth rotating at 1,100 miles per hour on its axis, the Earth traversing the Sun, how in God's green acre could anyone with a half a brain predict that an asteroid might hit The United States? I can see maybe claiming a strike on the planet, but to say one specific spot on the planet is ridiculous. These democrats are in orbit.
It's called statistics, Rock. Eventually, it's virtually certain to happen. One of these events is what killed off the dinosaurs. Right now we don't quite have the technology to prevent it, but is there much doubt in your mind that in 200 years the human race will be able to defend itself againt these intruders?
But I have to agree, this administration shreds NASA's budget then comes up with this pile of crap. Has there ever been a sleazier administration?
This administration INCREASED NASA's budget, grandpa. By about 3 billion dollars actually. But don't let that stop your disturbingly blind hatred of Obama.
And yes, the sleazier administration was Bush II, who promised Constellation (like he promised No Child Left Behind), all the while severely underfunding it.
Um, I do believe that it was the "democrat controlled" congress that severly underfunded it......
NASA's budget this year is 19 billion dollars.
To put that in perspective, Americans will spend 50 billion dollars this year on make-up.
But hey, what's more important: Investing in the exploration of a universe 14 billion light years across or having a good quality eyeliner?
Jherek, with thinking like Rock's - yep, eyeliner wins hands down. But Rock does have a point - the chance of one randomly selected chunk of rock hitting the US as suggested is infinitesimally small. However, there are many many millions of bits of rock out there all on different orbits. The chance of getting hit by one of them suddenly is no longer small. And among of all the bits we know about and have classified as NEOs the chance is even greater. So Rock is right - it is just right about the wrong question.
Read between the lines here people, I know some of you see it and I wish more of you did, there have been several NEO's in the past 3 years that got too close for comfort, I honestly dont recall the news ever reporting those events. Cherish your family and friends and get ready for Web-bot predictions to come true.
Some over aged humans would neglect to care that fairy tales need actions greater than blind fold guessing games. this story is brain wash for the forced currency trade for the half fact sold. anyway, things that fall out of the sky could thin the human race without government deceit conflicts. nothing is worse than human made space junk spinning like hot titanium razorblades out of the black n' blue. the space junk needs more attention than the threats that waste resources.
let those chunks fall on earths lap, humans are chicken'd stupid to waste earth resources until induced death anyway.
id like the meteor resource to fall on earth, so neighbor bad habit of evil practice behind law doesn't get away with human murder w/ deceit tricks instead.
i need those falling stone showers to stop human clown distractions. bozo's wanted to crash another human existence with its dead jokes. Beware of the empty space in the earth sky, Human CLOWN! the rock shall fall on all craniums with resource nonsense
Huh? I think it's past time for your pill.
I think one of those rocks has already fallen on your cranium and embedded itself quite deeply.
good day ? rudy.
What BS...NASA has been a front for govt funds going elsewhere forever. The public needs to get wise. How often in recorded history have meteorites hit the earth? We can't protect from hurricanes and they are going to come up with a "meteorite plan"???
So tired of hearing about the hurricane, it's not like they weren't warned DAYS in advance. Who the hell says the governments respondsible for helping you. Get off your ass and get on the bus headed north. Don't wait, be proactive. Not feeling sorry for New Orleans anymore.
Hey Dee, NASA's budget this year is only $19 billion.
If you think following the word "only with the words "$19 billion" is stupid, then have a look at the National Debt Clock to get some perspective on exactly how much money the US government spends: http://www.usdebtclock.org/
If the US government was going to "launder" money, they would do it through the defense budget which is roughly equal to the amount of money collected in Federal income tax. As Brent Spiner's character pointed out in the movie "Independence Day": "You don't really think the Pentagon pays $100 apiece for hammers do you?"
Too funny! "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" It is only because we now have some capability of possibly doing something about the observably remote possibility of a significant asteroid strike that we allow ourselves to get worked up about it. Similarly, it is only because we have NO current capability of possibly doing ANYTHING about the sun going nova that we do not throw money down a hole fretting about that factual eventuality.
Here's a thought. Let's make everybody pay asteroid insurance and delude ourselves into thinking we have done a good and noble thing.
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true."
Homer J. Simpson
The office that they propose to set up will probably be a Cabinet level one. That means that whomever is president will pick it's Director. It will become just another political dumping ground for someone that has zip in the way of experience but did help elect the president. Remember Katrina, FEMA and Bush? "You're doing a heck of a job Brownie." I can't wait-I just can't wait.
There have been some really nifty ideas tossed about here concerning NEO's. When does the shuttle leave? I'm ready, lets go! Moon bases? Check! Blasting asteroids while flying space fighters? Rocks Hot! ;) ... In all seriousness now, why not just "tag" the NEO's with a transmitter and feed data back to those quantum computers and then plan the mining operations. & Billion people on the planet? We are going to have to move out into the stars eventually!
My favorite Si-Fi movie quote: Our budget allows us to cover 3% of the sky. It's a big damn sky!
May the Lady guide and protect you.
There's already been tooo many break-"downs" they won't go anywhere. Not without Mr. Einstien..it's just a waste of $
and besides, who knows what kind of garbage/pollution they're putting in the atmosphere. with their spacemobiles.
?
we already know what jets and things are putting into the atmosphere..
Pan-STARRS prototype is looking for asteroids >300m now:
http://pan-starrs.ifa.hawaii.edu/public/
It's looking for funding for PS-4.
For smaller stuff, http://www.fallingstar.com/, also looking for funding.
What we need is to have a big orbiting tugboat type engine platform, that is ready to head out and attach itself to an incoming object if we detect one. Once attached it would push/pull the object out of a trajectory that will hit us. Using nuclear bombs wont work, but a big ion engine would do the trick.
I have no problem paying taxes towards taking care of things. Or taking care of people in need either. We get a better, safer world to live in, with less misery and suffering. Its money well spent. Better spent than wasted on fancy dinners or new dvd players. I despise selfish people.
Mr Marley, you are about the only hairless bipedal hominid that I have heard from today. I do not understand how people who do not believe in this "God" are angry at those who do, rather than being pleasantly detached as am I.
Here's hoping your species does survive, and you all learn to chill out a little.
Hey James? did you know our Spirit weighs 21 ounces? yep, where does it go? any clue?
Scientifically Proven. babies, 1000 pound people. Everyone of us. 21 ounces.
Big impact but no cigar .... If only the' Tunguska Event' of June 30, 1908 were just a little bit larger ..... hmmm.
Prometheus
2 suggestions....now is the time to stock up on duck tape, batteries, and bottled water...and maybe we should invade the moon and search out their weapons of mass destruction, then we can move Wall St. up there!
Wouldn't hurt to ask Christine and Sarah about this; one can probably see it in her crystal ball, the other can probably see it from her house!
@ Commons...haha...That is funny...In Baltimore,they will be stocking up on "terlet" paper bread and milk...Not sure if they know what "duct" tape is...
OK, before the LIBERAL DEMOCRATS want to close down any of the U.S.A.F. ICBM Bases. I don't want the scenario, LIBERAL DEMOCRATS wring their hands over a Rock or Snow Cone baring down on EARTH, when the LIBERAL DEMOCRATS TAKE the U.S.A.F. Budget AWAY! Does not matter what the U.S.A.F. uses Missiles or Lasers but its their job to knock the ROCKS and SNOW CONES DOWN! Do not have the United States trying to build the WHEEL ALL OVER, because the LIBERAL DEMOCRATS CUT THE DEFENSE BUDGET!
And Conservative Republicans cut the VA budget - cuz, after all, those pesky vets already served their purpose.
I could ask you to do even the tiniest bit of research to realize the sheer impossibility of a Missle or Laser actually doing a significant amount of damage to either a) blow up the asteroid - which would in that case rain down 1000's of shards with completely unpredictable trajectories or b)change the orbit of the asteroid, in which case would be the equivalent of throwing a rock at a tornado and expecting it to suddenly change course. I could ask you to do the research, but I believe that you are like too many people in American suffering from inattentional blindness.
Because of the sheer waste of money that an missile or laser strike presents - you, as a conservative - should be up in arms about the suggestiion of such a misuse of goverment funds
Time for somebody's Prozac!
Guess who needs more taxpayer funding?
Look out Haiti, there's a NEO coming your way! [This message brought to you by the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy, NASA and the Ad Council.]
Asteroids have hit the earth in the past and they will do so in the future. The one that hit Siberia early in the last century could wipe out a state. the one that hit 65 million years ago would end civilization as we know it.
We should find and track these objects just for the sake of survival. Nobody could do anything about the Siberian impact but we are at the point that we could deflect something like that today.