The idea our country was founded on actually.

ron speaks like he is a member of the law enforcement establishment. Did ron ever have to read Robert Daley in cops school?

Wasn't it Benjamin Franklin who said that? Anyway... I agree with Alex.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Ben Franklin

I don't mind them tracking people either just do it lawfully so some smart-a$$ shyster lawyer doesn't get them off on a technicality later.

Those who appease the enemy are doomed to fall under attack by the enemy when they have conquered the others. They deserve what they get.

PDB

Ben Franklin lived a couple hundred years ago. I agree with his statement but I doubt that he would have wanted the government to turn a blind eye to possible enemy attack.

The problem of trusting any sort of authority to do the right things is that ultimately it will come down to an individual agent, analyst, police officer etc making a judgement call on whether someone is a "bad guy" or not. No way - not for me.

I think that all wire tapping or electronic surveillance should require a warrant based on documented eveidence.

Before anyone reading my comment accuses me of being a bleeding heart, commie, pinko liberal....lol...... I am a Marine who has served in the Middle East and seen first hand and up close the devasting effects of a car bombing on an American institution. Anyone, anywhere who would perpetrate a crime like that is a terrorist and ought be terminated with extreme prejudice.

That said, we live in a system of checks and balances and that system should be used both to protect the rights of the citizenry and to prosecute the war on terrorism.

No such thing on both. No amount of security will help you if someone wants you dead bad enough

I just did a search on this little item and found this website which asks if I want to download a document. It ends with .gov in the middle and .doc at the end. I said NO THANKS. https://www.gsaadvantage.gov/ref_text/GS07F9227S/0GNODL.20URV4_GS-07F-9227S_SEIMAC.DOC

Alex,
"Sacrifice your freedom for security and you have neither"

So my guess is that you were out on the blogosphere defending that preacher's constitutional right to burn up the Quaran...as opposed to blogging about how he shouldn't be allowed to and that we have to be all touchy feely with the muslims then, right?

One of the problems I have with that 'cmd' is the judicial system is full of bad judges. We have a judge near by that lets crooks go free even after a jury says they are guilty. There is no way he would allow a wiretap even for a known terrorist. He sets child molesters free. Plus, all you are doing is transferring the judgement call from the 'agent' to a judge. What is the difference? I highly doubt that one person could make the call to track someone now anyway. If it was just one person making the call I probably would agree with you.

Alex- If you are not breaking the law you shouldn't have any thing to worry about! I don't want big brother watching me either, but I am not involved in any thing that would warrant their attention (except for stirring liberals up on line- very easy to do now days).

I was, Sj. Freedom to protest. This man had his right to privacy violated by someone (that might've been FBI issue in the 50's, but no one uses those bricks anymore), and I'll stand up for his lost rights. It's our duty as Americans not to abide by what our leaders tell us to abide by, but to abide by the rules set down in the Constitution of the United States of America. As a citizen I'll stand up for my fellow citizens, as I'm sure that they would stand up for me. Party lines don't make a difference, the only thing that does is whether or not you'll come to the aid of one of your countrymen.

If you can't bring yourself to do that then clearly you don't belong here.

AngelP you are absolutely correct. If there is nothing to hide what is the problem. You can follow me anywhere I go. You would die of boredom. Those of you who are lefties are the ones howling about this and if it wasn't for people like you we wouldn't be in the mess we're in. You'll need to think about that long and hard. You'll never understand because you are all in denial. Denial: An unconscious mental process that keeps the individual from their own unacceptable reality. In other words what you don't want to be true but is.

The funny part is where Afifi says he did do anything to warrrant a traking device. I wish I had nickle for everyone that says the same thing. "I didn't do anything". My kid used that line a million times when he was growing up.

I used it on a cop the other day when he pulled me over for speeding. It always seems to be what people say first even though no one asked them anything.

In regards to my position on the preacher, I did not support his burning of a holy book. Though I am in no position to tell him he can not burn it if he so chooses. The beauty of freedom is you can choose to make good or stupid choices, but at the end of the day they were your decisions to make.

"The means of defence against foreign danger have historically become the instruments of tyranny at home".

"If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will bein the guise of fighting a foreign enemy".~ James Madison

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending to much liberty than those attending too a small degree of it".~ Thomas Jefferson

"A nation of well informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which god has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins".~ Benjamin Franklin

you're brainwashed, you're a zombie...

I think it is hilarious personally. The thing was found by a mechanic and removed.

I have a problem with it, and your flippant regard for the rule of law and personal liberties is no excuse for tyranny.

Heh, heh, heh...

Hey, EZHUNTER. Let me give you a BIG CLUE: GSA Advantage is the government's on-line shopping store. If you don't have a GSA account, authorization number, and a CAC card you aren't getting squat. Don't worry your little head too much. The on-line supply Sergeant won't do business with you anyhow.

Hey Derek-V:

You sound very frustrated with all the 'liberal' propaganda and with all the 'liberals' lambasting Glen Beck, Sarah Palin, Fox News, Bush, etc. and any other notable 'conservatives'. You seem to upset that there are so many people that don't understand that 'liberals' are really 'marxists/elitists/socialists, etc.'.

I'd like to take some of the emotion out of this 'discussion' and get right to the substance of it, underneath the passionate but largely unsupported statements.

Can you provide me and the other people commenting on this news story with any concise, concrete examples (the kind that, with '...a small amount of investigative effort...' we would be able to fact check and verify) of what specifically Glen Beck has exposed, and how that information demonstrates clearly that all 'liberals' are what you say they are?

Thanks

Why do republicans preach less government and strict interpretationof the constitution, but when it comes to stuff like this, it's just fine and dandy. "track me I didn't do anything wrong", well thats not the point. The constitution grants all citizens basic civil liberties and this guy was a US citizen. It just goes to show that republicans want to pick and choose when and how strictly they interpret the Constitution based on the situation. Which makes them nothing more than hypocrites. And it doesn't help that this guy was a non-white. We all know republicans are scared of anyone darker than John Boehner.

Spoken like a true LE/Military Industrial Complex shill!

All of you seemed to have missed the part of the article where the "reporter" questioned a supposed security expert, I presume from the FBI. The person being questioned stated that the device was well obsolete and the type hadn't been used in a long time. He stated that the newer devices in use today DO NOT NEED LARGE BATTERIES. He stated that they preffered to hard-wire the new devices directly to the vehicles internal wiring system making them VERY DIFFICULT TO SPOT.

When people who do this for a living do the job, you'd better be highly trained if you want a hope in hell of finding it. Simply stated: this was planted by a hack and "taken in to a mechanic" so that the owner of the car would have his story of the big, bad, FBI infringing on the rights of a citizen. All of you out there whom have never been trained in military or government agency tactics and policies are the ones this tool is counting on to knee-jerk and jump on the "ban big brother" band wagon.

As Bugs Bunny would say: "What a bunch of ultra-maroons!!!"

What happened to innocent until proven guilty. Everyone seems to be commenting like this kid is already a convicted terrorist. He is a US citizen an thus has protection from the Government's unlawful tracking. The Constitution applies to all US citizens not just the non-muslim.

D-Nice, Afrikinamerican:

Spoken like true NAACP/Black Panther dupes... Touche, eh?!

I'll bet you never served, did you? At least not honorably...

ur exactly the kind of fool we need to be afraid of. ur overly schooled in the field of government deception and lawless rules of engagement. u have no mind of ur own to think with after 22 years of defending what you u percieve to be the constitution. ur small mind has been dumbed down by the lawless and-non constitution bound pentagon process of order. and keep in mind im a gun owner, hunter and avid supporter of the constitution. not to mention a man that would willingly take arms to protect my nation from tyrants like the idiots in government and the pentagon. u make ur living off my paycheck for no apparent reasons other than to spread political chaos throughout the world. do a head check and stay out of law enforcement. we dont need wackos on the streets playing god.

AngelP,

Typically after totalitarian systems consolidate their power, using the pretext of "the foreign enemy," and then "domestic enemies," then they reveal that the real enemy is their own subjects. And typically, it's their own shills and lackeys who get eliminated first. Remember what Hitler did to the Brownshirts.

I have nothing to hide and I STILL don't want to be monitored by the government. I think about it this way, even if you're having a perfectly innocent and normal conversation, you probably don't want some dude eavesdropping on you.

yeah, but thats when the FBI gets to use you as a scapegoat...thats how beaurocracy operates. if in a given time they cannot find a solution to their investigation...they create one. the system is flawed.

Hey marshall,

Look in the mirror, then look in the dictionary. Compare the face under the definition of MORON!!! It's YOUR face there. How proud your Mommy must be of you.

The only reason you'd have to fear me is if you are a foreign or domestic enemy of America, it's Constitution, and our way of life. You, dear sir (and I use that phrase lightly) are the one who is seriously deficient in education. Oh yeah, one more reason to fear me is that I am a professional, while you are a rank amateur. Hunter or not, don't threaten or mess with me. The worst possible thing for you to do is to show your goat-smelling-carcass on my doorstep.

And by the way, I am defined by the Army as a self-starter. This is someone who is highly trained, extremely motivated, and needs little to no supervision to accomplish his missions. Go back to your little "hunt club" (or is that militia) and cower in fear. For if you chose to sow anarchy in this country, I and others like me will be your scourge. I have sworn to support and defend the Constitution against ALL enemies foreign and domestic since 22 April, 1982.

@angel, you tell lies. So if your doing nothing wrong, you don't have a problem with the FBI tracking your every move, monitoring and taping your phone calls, monitoring your internet activity, taking photos of you, bugging your job, and following you around all the time? You really wouldn't have a problem with that, if you were doing nothing wrong. I call you, madame, a liar!

I too have sworn to protect this country against ALL eneimies foreign and domestic since September 16 1969. But what I see happening across America is an abuse of power. By ALL parties.

"It is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” Herman Goering.

"Facism will come to America, wrapped in a flag and holding a cross. " Sinclair Lewis.

People should not fear their governments.

Governments should fear their people.

I have nothing to hide, myself, but I do have problems with how it can lead to a slippery slope of our rights being consistently violated by our own government, in particular the rights that many think this particular incident concerns: privacy rights (which are an interpreted right via the 9th Amendment, unlike the explicitly stated rights such as freedom of speech, freedom of assembly, and freedom of the press). If it keeps up at this rate, your personal records could easily be accessed by ANYONE. It's an extreme example, I know, but it helps my point.

As someone else brought up in response to your post: "A society that will give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

That said, roads are a publicly owned object, so surveillance on those isn't illegal itself. I'm personally more concerned with ACTA anyways, which would essentially be putting what amounts to a backdoor "trojan" for the feds to access your computer, which, as the computer is your personal property and is most likely just going to be inside your house, is like they're watching you WITHIN THE WALLS of your own home, which is a blatant violation of your privacy rights. There is also the potential for it to be an easily exposed security risk for hackers and viruses to take advantage of and steal your personal information.

We are/have quickly becoming/become a police state, and the people appear to approve of it. Adolph would be proud.

Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power. -- Benito Mussolini

To take from one, because it is thought his own industry and that of his fathers has acquired too much, in order to spare to others, who, or whose fathers, have not exercised equal industry and skill, is to violate arbitrarily the first principle of association, the guarantee to everyone the free exercise of his industry and the fruits acquired by it. -- Thomas Jefferson

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. -- Thomas Jefferson

Derek-V

Change the channel.

3rdpartyadvocate said:

Those who would give up Essential Liberty
to purchase a little Temporary Safety,
deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Ben Franklin

I'm with you man. I don't have anything to hide either, but my privacy is my privacy. I don't need this "if you have nothing to hide then you shouldn't mind ... " crap. That's what this country was built upon.

Believe it or not, I agree with you alonso. It is written in the Constitution that if the government becomes willful and no longer conducts itself in a Constitutional manner, that the people have the right (and responsibility) to end that government's rule and restore Constitutional order and rule to the land.

It isn't just the Democrats, the Republicans are just as guilty of selling out the people of this country. Party politics needs to be banned along with the Electoral College. All politicians need to run by themselves with either their own money, or a pre-determined amount of pubilic money to be repaid by faithful service driven by the will of their constituency. Also, one "man", one vote.

Term limits, like those imposed upon the President, need to be instituted for every last elected official in this country. If the President can serve only two consecutive tours in office, so be it for Senators and Congressmen. Supreme Court Justices need to be selected based upon the merits of their histories and case loads by a pannel of their peers. They also need tenure limits for their appointments to the bench. As it stands now, they are all political lackeys for one party or another.

The Fed needs to be abolished. Control of this nation's monetary assets needs to be returned to the Department of the Treasury. The dollar needs to be re-valued to a rigid structure based on available government assets of precious metal assets such as gold, silver, copper, and even platinum bullion. Controlls need to be instuted and regulated to ensure that no more money is minted/printed than there are proper reserves of supporting bullion on-hand to prevent over seas devaluation of the dollar.

All of these foreign trade agreements that have stymied American workers and businesses need to be abolished and reciprocity agreements on import/export tarriffs need to be re-negotiated with each country on a case-by-case basis from scratch. Unions need to be re-structured to illegalized paying workers for laying off of work when they are physically capable and the jobs exist.

America's tax code needs to be scrapped and re-written according to Forbes model. A flat 5% income tax for every last working American whether they earn $5 a year or $5 million a year. Everyone gets to pay the same 5%, no exemptions, no excuses. This means everyone will pay the same per capita no matter how rich or poor, and good ol' Uncle Sam will get his annual tithing to pay salaries and public works projects. And when the money runs out, the spending stops. Just like us little every day Americans have to do if we run out of money.

Of course, none of this is new. None of this is original to me. They aren't even all-encompassing. However, they are all points of contention I do endorse and I believe that if these steps are instituted they will be a great start in the right direction of recovering our country from the political dregs that have been allowed to inhabit our halls of power for far too long.

I have nothing to hide either...What upsets me is that yours and my tax dollars are paying for some government schmuck to sit in front of a monitor all day and watch me doing a whole lot of nothing...For how long...?

Socialism and status-quo is the real evil here. Not tracking you because you are a terrorist.

You invent something that can hurt and/or dismantle the revenue stream of a large company, they call in a favor and you are branded a threat and tracked , They now know where you go, who you talk to and more. I have been in this position without the tracking and the threats are real.

So they can call people who are working with you to help launch the product to mainstream and use influence to shut you down at every pass. If they fail they use last resort and arrange an accident,

If the feds or police what my every move tracked, then they should be willing to pay for the resources to do it!

My car is an extension of my property, my home. If the cops aren't allowed to legally implant anything into my home without a warrant then the same should apply to my vehicle. Unconstitutional, hands down.

Simply stated: this was planted by a hack and "taken in to a mechanic" so that the owner of the car would have his story of the big, bad, FBI infringing on the rights of a citizen

I am just going to completely ignore the backpeddling and mindless off topic rants in your other posts, because there is simply too much to pick apart....

What really outed you, hacksaw, was the above comment that basically speculates this whole story was setup in order to bring light to the infringement of rights. Did you not read the part where the FBI showed up at the guy's doorstep??? Oh yeah, I am sure the FBI really wants to go through the trouble of staging the entire incident just so they could eventually limit their own power.

Take you meds please.

I wish I didn't have anything to hide! I know that when I have driven my car, on many occassions I have exceeded the speed limit. Not by more than 10 miles an hour, but I'd probably wager fairly regularly. By the number of people who pass me on the freeway, I'd wager that a GREAT many folk do too.

Now, imagine getting tickets and points for everytime you exceeded the speed limit by 5 miles an hour. EVERYTIME, and multiply the occurances in a month by say, $25. I think I just found a way to balance the Federal debt. It would certainly go a long way toward making many cities solvent again.

Now also imagine, you drive to work. You drive past a house. Now, in that house it is a known drug or prostitution house. Because you drive past it everyday, the police come and detain you for 48 hours as a suspected sex offender/drug customer.

Often time data can be used for unanticipated consequence. Far better not to be caught up in having to prove you're innocent. It can be expensive, ESPECIALLY when you're not guilty!

hahahaha that was funny

I believe this guy is compensating.

Some people actually need a big truck. Try hauling a trailer and heavy equipment with your little rice burner. Or laugh about overcompensation when your little car slams into a big truck and your teeth go through the back of your skull.

Dodge huh? Well the only place you have to worry about the fbi tracking YOU, is to the repair shop, if you can make it that far. lol

Hey Jimbo, How what you know what's in his underpants? Having you been looking under his hood LOL!!!!!! I say it takes one to know one. It's the magic in it that really counts!!!!! ROFLMAO!!! They could put one under my truck, but I am a skirt wearer!!! They'd just what arrest me for? For hum? Shopping maybe! LOL I'm a lady and I still look under my truck and at my tires every week!

Hey Jumbo, Sounds like you are envious, as well as having a small penis. Otherwise you wouldn't unconsciously name yourself Jumbo. Smallbo maybe.

Nothing more dangerous then some goofball Liberal with a bit a "Pop Culture Psychiatry" and a few "head shrinking" metaphors to go with it. I would be willing to bet it all that NONE of you attacking that man's reference to his truck have not even TOUCHED one of the 17 Major works by Freud. And if by chance you did, by chance, in some "Glazed over" 101 class... you had your "X-men" Comic Book inserted in the pages of the book/s to keep your attention span beyond 3 minutes.

AMEN if you have nothing to hide. You need to thank the FBI. Alot of you have penis' on your mind. Dont ask don't tell?

redneck alert.

also, sad to see how many of the trolls are terrible with grammar, spelling and general sentence cohesion. reverse trolls are possibly even worse at it. and rednecks dont like big trucks because they have small junk. they like big trucks because the symbols of america are Waste and Oil. why do you think we needed to invade the middle east?

p.p.s. jimbo is probably himself trolling.

Irish more of you would learn from each other instead of just calling each other names. I learned some real factual and legal questions, but had to go through a lot of carping to do so. Many rebutted my prejudices. There is no compelling need for hate and vitriole at this level. I wonder if it is a set-up. I wonder if the tracker was legally abandoned, incidently to whether it turns out that it was legally placed or not. We've had enough trouble with 'not' for the rest this entire century already. That's why we need to stick together and protect each other, expect and demand that Constitutional standards prevail between us on an individual, as assumed by the Constitution. That's patriotism. Don't bother calling me a liberal.

Great one Bob. I think you're the only post that actually addresses the issue.

Put one on my big ass Dodge 4X4 any time you want FBI. Nothing to hide.

Of course, that is the mentality that prevailed in Germany just prior to Hitler taking control. Last I checked, the premise of the Constitution stated that everyone was innocent until PROVEN guilty. Whether the student is muzzie or not, or what his father was doing is beside the point. The point is that we've become a police state and are more than happy to drop our britches to PROVE our innocence. This is wrong, as it goes against the Constitution and sets a bad example about our country to the world. The Founding Father's attitude, because they understood how British rule operated, was that, I have nothing to hide and what I do, as long as it isn't unlawful, is none of your damned business! That is why most of these "surveillance" devices are a real bad idea. When it comes down to it, it's not Dem v. Rep or Cons v. Lib or even Right v. Left. It's "We the People" (Us) v. the government (Them)!

"The people who own the country ought to govern it". -- John Jay (First Chief Justice of the Supreme Court)

"The tyranny of a prince in an oligarchy is not so dangerous to the public welfare as the apathy of a citizen in a democracy". -- Montesquieu

"The real difference between democracy and oligarchy is poverty and wealth. Wherever men rule by reason of their wealth, whether they be few of many, that is an oligarchy, and where the poor rule, that is democracy". -- Aristotle (Hint: Look at who is in office...)

SLAM! Duh duh duh!!!

Totally funny Tom

12 Islamic Terrorists kill 3000+ Innocent Americans and They say "you can't judge all muslims by the acts of a few extremists....but let ONE PREACHER THREATEN TO BURN THE KORAN... and it's DEATH TO AMERICA!!!!!!! Yeah I am still waiting for the "Moderate muslims" to denounce 9-11.

under?

Amazing that you refute 1 comment (ok yes some may condemn) show me the action...Show me the compliance with Law enforcement. How about less complaints about "racial profiling" and a little more sensitivity about 9-11 and where you put a mosque. By the way THEY STILL HAVEN'T REBUILT THE GREEK ORTHODOX CHURCH THAT WAS AT GROUND ZERO!!!! Because the city is delaying it...but they fast track the muslim site....

By the way it's YOU'RE as in you are stupid not your as in your post sucks

Hey northof60girl, you shouldn't insult Baboons like that, this guy is more closely related to shower scum!

I am amazed that those who think themselves intelligent still can't figure out your and you're....and they call us stupid....

I am pretty sure intelligence is not measured on making little grammar mistakes here and there. If you seriously judge all Muslims on the act of what a few have done, then you can easily do the same with Christians, which in fact throughout history have done more acts of violence than a few Muslim extremist.

bri....1xxxxx

No oil change mechanic would offer to rip out a wire from a car.

I would...puts a hole in your "no" theory...

If I found it on my car I put in on a 18 wheeler headed for New York....

the only thing worse than unwarranted surveillance ... is inept unwarranted surveillance.

The Apple dumpling gang rides again.

If the guy was a real threat, you can bet he would have left the device on the car. Not hing is better than to know you are under surveillance, without those doing the surveillance knowing that you know. As long as you know where the mines are - you can avoid them. surveillance is only effect if the subject doesn't know he is being watched. Ask any peeping-tom, they are masters of the unguarded moment.

They're the same people who can't distinguish between there, they're and their, Or to, too, and two.

when are you liberals going to figure out that the ONLY PEOPLE trying to kill us and the rest of the world right now are MUSLIMS> They want to dominate the world and will use our own laws against us. They ae attacking in evry way, through politics, the courts and terrorism. If people do not wake up and start to fight back, damn the political correctness, we are all going to be living under sharia law and wearing headdresses.

Wake up America we are under attack and we look like the French during WWII.

You better wait on Bush and Cheney to denounce it, they know more abt it than the "muslims"

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5420753830426590918#

Ok, Nabeel. You can show one link to a denouncement. Now, for your one post, go google up how many there are about Muslims dancing in the streets when the World Trade Center collapsed. I still remember that footage. Live and raw as it was happening on 11 September, 2001.

And for Stealth: It was 19 men of Muslim background that conducted the attacks on 11 September. 15 of them were Saudi Arabian. What kills me is that our government still considers them friends. From what I saw and heard from them during Desert Storm and on 11 September I would have flush 'em a long time ago. After confiscating all of the military aid we either gave or sold them.

pghmom,

You and every other one of these Muslim haters are shining examples of this country's ignorance. You all think that just because a few Muslims are terrorists, that means they all are terrorists. You're wrong. Most Muslims despise the extremists but only dislike us because of our ineptitude and poor treatment of their home countries. It's just like saying that a few pastors are child molesters, therefore they ALL are molesters. It is because of people like you that these conflicts continue.

Hey Demon God Majora

Then I guess you would okay if used my 1st amendment right of free speech and burned a copy of the Koran.

If one really takes the time to think about it in this day and age, you are being tracked no matter what the situation may be and it isn't being done by just the FBI or government agency. The demand for more higher advanced technology in cell phones, cars, computers, airplanes and any other net enabled device has basically make everyone "trackable". Most new cars are GPS enabled such as Onstar. Almost all cell phones are GPS enabled now. Unless you turn off the setting, you will be tracked as to where you are. All airliners, trains, and most semi trucks are satellite tracked. When your on the internet, anyone can track your movements online and trace you to a place of origin of the signal. These are the things that come with advanced technology. Not saying that the FBI was right in this situation, but it seems there is alot of contriversy stirred up over them supposedly tracking someone possibly under investigation. But where is the contriversy of anyone tracking you normally day to day with onstar or cell phone usage? It seems like it's only a big deal when the FBI or government does it.

Nabeel Chaudary wrote: "

Umm stealth12, I don't understand where your getting the idea that moderate muslims aren't denouncing it. Maybe you're just too blind to see it. To prove your ignorance, here are just a few, but then again you could probably deny it cuz you didn't pull it out of your ass.

http://www.muhajabah.com/otherscondemn.php

wow your stupid "

Could be he's still startled by the crowds throughout the Muslim world, including Dearborn (MI) and Buffalo (NY), who burst into ecstatic celebrations on the day in question, Nabeel. It put ME in mind of a plague of locusts blotting out the sun, stripping the fields of sustenance.

How about the lesson to the FBI that if they had done it properly they would not be getting embarrassed like this.

No law enforcement agency can just go on fishing expeditions.

Unless they are trolling in The Deep Blue?

... No law enforcement agency can just go on fishing expeditions.

Were you asleep during the last administration? That was the whole goal, the big ruckus behind the "Patriot Act", Carnivore and all the so-far, unrevealed, unnamed schemes, programs which abuse, abridge and abort your,our, my - rights to privacy.

Its what recently drove the Rutger student to suicide. in the "right hands" its a dirty job, in the wrong hands it can be deadly. The Nazi's used it, quite effectively, by having school children report on the activities of their parents. How low will authorities stoop to know your secrets ... the gauge hasn't been invented, yet, to plumb that low - doesn't register to that depth.

There is some evidence that suggests it wasn't even the FBI...

Beoweolf,

The Rutgers student's privacy was not infringed upon by the United States Government. It was infringed upon by fellow classmates in the role of bullies because they did not approve of his "lifestyle". The young man's fellow students didn't employ high-tech or discarded government spy devices. They used commercially available over-the-counter technology to invade his privacy and publicly out him becuase his roomate was crass, thoughless, and vindictive. They all knew what the end result would be and actively sought it.

That case has absolutely NO correlation to this one. The situational context of this story is totally different as are the overtones represented.

i disagree,, the point is,, he thought he was in private,, he wasnt,,, and he couldnt handle the world knowing he was a rope smoker.

his right to privacy was violated, its moot by who it was done

Disagree all you want to. The story wasn't about "someone" (meaning a private citizen) violating this man's privacy and surveilling him. It is about the GOVERNMENT doing it. Or didn't you read the story? Hello, FBI supposedly placing a tracking device on a private citizen's car. Not just Joe Blow off the street.

Someone, anyone, everyone ... believe it or not - includes the FBI. The fact that they are a government agency does not automatically grant them an exemption from Law. We have policies in place which, when reviewed by the courts - will grant the government to go above the law. Those rights are reviewed so that the "People" are protected from unwarranted intrusions on their "lawful" pursuit of a personal freedoms. Anyone, who takes it upon him or herself to countermand the legal restrictions ... just because there is technology which makes it possible is in violation of moral as well as legal restrictions.

Its not that We, you or I have something to hide - its about where They, you or I have a "Right to know" and more importantly ... What are your intentions with respect to gathering, collating and using that information?

There is a world of difference between my wife, GF and I taking home videos vs. what someone else may do with those videos once the are out of our control.

You know its true or at least you should know. The same pictures I or any other parent might take of our naked children at play in the back yard, on summer vacation or exploring with other children - take on a sinister other quality when viewed in a different context.

No, even the government has no right to track our movements, activities - unless there is an over-ridding National and "legally reviewed and approved" documentation of that need. Free-lance intrusions should never be given a defacto, blanket endorsement, to an unknowing, uninformed target - even if it's the government, a supposed "prank" or investigation to infidelity. The courts have provided ample history of rulings supporting these rights against track, recording or instituting investigations without some factual evidence that a crime is being committed. Gathering information is not a good reason, it requires some probable cause.

The sad thing is the paranoids amoung us are protecting your rights as well as their own. You can not give away my right to privacy.

Wrong. The Patriot Act clearly states if you are deemed to be a suspected enemy combatant, even if you ARE a citizen, your constitutional rights are suspended and you can be watched without warrants, held with no end with no council, or even assassinated if found to be a large enough threat. Sadly, this is what it has come to because pre-911, the FBI had asked for a warrant to watch 3 of the hijackers and were turned down by a judge with an agenda. Look how that worked out in the end.

... It was infringed upon by fellow classmates in the role of bullies because they did not approve of his "lifestyle"...

I wasn't aware that we, all of us had to get our "life style" approved of by our college room mates? Even if this were true, the decent thing to do was to come to some agreement with the room mate - not broadcast it "Allen Funt style - on the internet"... Smile, you'er on Candid Camera".

Oops, forgot to ask, did he sign a release?

The Patriot Act clearly states if you are deemed to be a suspected enemy combatant, even if you ARE a citizen, your constitutional rights are suspended and you can be watched without warrants, held with no end with no council, or even assassinated if found to be a large enough threat.

Sadly, this is what it has come to because pre-911, the FBI had asked for a warrant to watch 3 of the hijackers and were turned down by a judge with an agenda. Look how that worked out in the end.

The only sad thing about the judge denying their request for surveillance, is their inability to produce enough evidence to justify the surveillance. the system worked, in that the FBI had a duty to provide enough convincing evidence to allow the judge provide the correct ruling. Merely rummaging through millions of requests for surveillance, and cherry picking the few which had actionable outcomes is irrelevant.

What of the other cases which were denied, where there was insufficient evidence to issue a surveillance order. Those people were likely singled out on a whim or John Doe warrant which had no real evidence - obviously not enough evidence to pass even a cursory smell test. Who is to know whether the Judge denied the order out right ... or more likely, told them to provide enough evidence to convince him it was just a hunting expedition, wild goose chase or worse - harassment of a law abiding citizen, for no justifiable reason.

Want radicalize the General population - just keep chipping away at their security, Peace of mind with unjustified "sword-rattling". Just what did we get in return for The Patriot Act - and invasion and wild goose hunt for WMD's in Iraq, the results are we are still embroiled in a war - long after the case was proved false. Now the instigator has quietly, gone home, retired - currently writing his rose-colored, optimistic, greatly embellished memoirs.

Yup, and they didn't FIND enough evidence, they were good at hiding it, and 4 planes got slammed into building and the ground, 3000 people died, and we started 2 wars. So you're telling me, with a straight face, that you would let ALL OF THAT happen again, because you're afraid that someday, for no apparent reason, the FBI is gonna start watching you? Are you breaking the law? Are you planning a terrorist attack? Are you cheating on your taxes? If not, you don't have to worry about it.

PS - I was a soldier in Iraq for almost 2 years. I know for a fact that they had WMDs there. I found them. Serin gas rockets are WMDs. But I guess we all have selective amnesia when it's brought up that Saddam gassed thousands of men, women and children of Kuwait. One tablespoon of Serin is lethal to 100 ft.

I guess we all have selective amnesia.

1981-1993: Western Businesses Sell Iraq WMD Materials

We can all make grandiose claims of what we would or wouldn't do until the real deal pops off and we're forced to make a choice. I highly doubt you would let your children die so that a man who is obviously suspected of doing something wrong can be tracked electronically without a warrant. Give me a break. Get off your soap box and realize you would do no such thing. No one's principles are that strong.

Sure you will. And since when is keeping tabs on suspected terrorists tantamount to slavery? Get back to your double wide and your pickup truck.

The only thing I would protect with my life IS my family's life. If you don't like how everything is going here, you don't have to stay here. We'll be better off without a drunken pussy like you anyways.

.....black an latino people live in trailer parks too. Who's the racist now?

btw, punctuation is your friend. If your entire post wasn't one long run on sentence, you wouldn't look half as stupid as you do.

well, porn is legal. if theyre interested in my odd fetishes so be it. i have nothing to hide. in the end its to keep us safe, so who cares. its not like theyre coming to my house telling everyone i know that i watch weird porn and talk to my friends and family about mundane and arbitrary subjects. so, go ahead. and before you go stereotyping and hate mongering, im not a member of any form of law enforcement.

Umm, yes. I would. Why would it matter otherwise? If you're not doing anything illegal, who cares. I know my response will just stun some. They would be begging to get off the surveillance in a week, they'd be so bored.

Unless, of course, I was actually doing something illegal.

My son has Porn books hidden in his room. I know that its there (thank God it hetero!... no whips, chains, handcuffs or animals involved.), he likely knows that I know its there, his Mom definately knows its there .... but we all pretend it isn't.

We do ask that he wash his hands before leaving his room.

Extreme Center, how do you know that you're not doing anything illegal? Have you actually read all 100,000 pages of the federal law? Have you read the thousands of pages of state law where you reside? Have you read the hundreds of pages of local laws for the cities that you go to?

Count that is a very good point.

What happens while searching porn you come across a picture of an underage girl or boy? Perhaps an animal or something? I'm pretty sure anal sex is illegal in a few states still. The point being there are laws that most people don't even know about. Ignorance of them is not a viable defense either.

Reading through all of this I see the Conservatives have gone on their usual Liberal bashing but they truly sound Communist with their idealogy.

Where's the common sense and I am going to do right party? Please sign me up.

Kev--They aren't tellin everybody that you watch "weird porn", BUT YOU ARE!!!!!!

Beowolf--"EEEWWWW"!!!!!! Shouldn't THAT be private????? Duhhhh!!!!!!

its a joke wendy. just a joke

Why should they be any different than the corporations who already do it routinely? Or your wife and girlfriend? Or the little snotnose three doors down who just broke through your router? If you're grazing porn on the net, then you'd better be Charlie Sheen already.

True ... but that doesn't mean we should stop complaining or prevent/revoke/expose it when we find.

As stated earlier surveillance is only effective, if the subject is unaware of it. Remain aware and vigilant... that way they aren't sure if you are baiting the camera or not.

A game, we kids used to play in stores which frowned on unaccompanied minors spending money in their stores... the object was to appear to be shop lifting to expose the secret shopper tracking kids. If yu got busted, without any evidence - then the store had to explain to your parents, the police why they were harassing, kidnapping or detaining law-abiding kids.

I'm sure they could look for the nearest liquor store or trailer park and find you just fine. You're not exactly Jason Bourne.

I'm not running because I'm not guilty of anything. And thus, they aren't looking for me. Now go take another shot of Jack and beat your wife again, redneck.

Anyone that has half a brain will not answer your question the way you want it answered, Do you work for the Government?

They are listening/ readingright now anyway so who cares... I see a distinct divide, once people get to thier own breaking point it wont take much, it's happened many times before. Nothing like a little spring cleaning!!!

If this is being read, we all will be visited by the grammar police.

I believe I have half a brain and I will happily respond to this question in exactly the way it was intended.

There will absolutely be a revolution. Weather it will be violent is still up in the air. We have about 14 trillion dollars in foreign debt but that is not the debt that will drive the tax war. The federal domestic debt due to social security, Medicare, federal employee benefits (medical and pension), veteran benefits etc. exceed 60 trillion dollars. It is not possible to even grasp the magnitude of state and local municipality debt. This domestic debt will come due within our own communities spiting the tax entitled against the tax payers. Eventually the debt will come due in the form of entitlements and who will pay? It is not possible to raise taxes enough. So many promises that have been made will have to be withdrawn and, due to a lack of fiscal education in this country, the entitled will not understand why. Corporations and government, though mass media confusion, will extort what is left and by the time we get our heads out of our asses there will not be much left to fight over anyways.

The only question is how will Americans respond when this day of reckoning arrives?

There is no revolution coming. The feds know it, and that is why they push the envelope like they do.

There is too much good television programming on, good sports, good movies, good video games. Keep the people occupied on themselves and they would rather stay home.

I believe I have half a brain and I will happily respond to this question in exactly the way it was intended.

There will absolutely be a revolution. Weather it will be violent is still up in the air. We have about 14 trillion dollars in foreign debt but that is not the debt that will drive the tax war. The federal domestic debt due to social security, Medicare, federal employee benefits (medical and pension), veteran benefits etc. exceed 60 trillion dollars. It is not possible to even grasp the magnitude of state and local municipality debt. This domestic debt will come due within our own communities spiting the tax entitled against the tax payers. Eventually the debt will come due in the form of entitlements and who will pay? It is not possible to raise taxes enough. So many promises that have been made will have to be withdrawn and, due to a lack of fiscal education in this country, the entitled will not understand why. Corporations and government, though mass media confusion, will extort what is left and by the time we get our heads out of our asses there will not be much left to fight over anyways.

The only question is how will Americans respond when this day of reckoning arrives?

KerryJ--ummmm, since the whole reading people's mail and listening to their phone conversations and tracking their vehicles without a warrant and searching their homes with neither a warrant nor telling people their homes had been searched started under Bush, I'm kind of wondering who you want to have the revolution against . . . .

One of the reasons many people voted for the current administration was to make sure that things like this slowed down dramatically. It appears that there was an outdated device--possibly placed there years ago--on this particular car. There is no way of knowing when it was put on--and, apparently, no one really knew it was off until the object's picture was placed on the Internet. This suggests that the FBI kind of forgot about it.

So, this looks more like a Bush-era or Bush-holdover issue than the current administration. Why exactly do we need to have a revolution with the present administration, which is not really championing torture or bugging citizens or anything like that?

PS Advocating the violent overthrow of the US government just happens to be slightly illegal. You might want to moderate your language lest the feds come knocking on your door.

For the record, one trillion dollar bills weighs more than 7 Nimitz class aircraft carriers. That means that we would need the equivalent weight of one aircraft carrier in hundred dollar bills to pay our foreign debt and 4 more for the federal domestic debt and only god knows how many more to pay state and local debts. Everything else is a sideshow. The revolutions of the world are always financially driven.

j

Yes it is. THANK GOD!!!! The Tytler Cycle is coming full-circle. I hate that we never got to live in The USA when it was free, but I am happy to be living in the time of the revolution, when we take it back from our captors.

Hey Bean, sorry to rain on your Bush-bashing parade but things like this did not originate with his administration. In fact, the Dem. hero Bill "slick willy" Clinton innitiated Operation Echelon which, amazingly enough, was not for security purposes, but for economic espionage. It is fact and you can research the subject. However, I don't think that any modern administration can be saddled with the dubious honor of innitiating this type of survellance. So please, enough with "it's Bush's fault."

I hear you on the revolution, but not happening. Sorry folks, see Mr Current President? Well you're looking at the Leader of the NWO!!! Got it? Mark my words, but I hope I die before then. I just can't tell you why, it's too horrible to speak about. God help us.

Hi bean@home:

Sorry to tell you this, but Obama has not really changed the policies that were in place in the Bush era -- the "Patriot" Act is still in full force, and Guantanamo Bay is still open. A president who campaigned on Hope and Change has not really delivered that much of either. (And no, I am not a Republican or Tea Party member.)

And as to your comment that advocating the overthrow of the government is "illegal", maybe you might want to read a little document called the Declaration of Independence, which explicitly gives citizens the RIGHT to do so when necessary!

Wow, all this talk of a revolution and overthrowing an "illegal" government is truly frightening. You know, people, extremism is dangerous regardless of whom is engaging in it and there are plenty of frightening extremists here in the US who call themselves Christian and patriot but whose actions and words contradict both labels. Read the Time article called "Locked and Loaded"...it might scare you, unless of course you're one of those crazies!

Also, to the long back poster who suggested Benjamin Franklin might not have a problem with all the illegal surveillance, etc if he were to live in modern times. I think not. He understood that to truly have liberty, you can't be so quick to give it away and his times were plenty dangerous enough to suggest that he'd still fight for true liberty today, maybe even harder!

"I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical. Unsuccessful rebellions, indeed, generally establish the encroachments on the rights of the people which have produced them. An observation of this truth should render honest republican governors so mild in their punishment of rebellions as not to discourage them too much. It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." Thomas Jefferson, 1787

He was a very smart man. And I would add that the threat of rebellion is the one true check on government. Don't believe me? Take a trot around the world.

Oh...and Dr. B, I am locked and loaded. I have been given that freedom by the United States Consitution and specifically the 2nd Ammendment. So when things go south, as they historically do with any civiization, those who call us extremists now will be begging for security then.

Jason, the American people will respond to the day of reckoning the same way they did on 9/11. Blindly follow whatever the President says.

I amainclined to agree with the poster who speculated that this was a forgotten device. Maybe it was acquired at FBI Surplus and installed by the guy's girlfriend

Franklin was a brilliant man... but by far not the most intelligent we've seen. Times change and while I do not agree with spying without paperwork, I'm backing the FBI on this one. It wasn't them, someone else did it.

The Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are both dead. The only thing that's stopping the government from burning them is the fact that they are in heavily protected museums. We now are forced to follow the laws of the government, not the Constitution. The Constitution is a joke, an empty shell of what it once was, a remnant of an age long gone when people actually stood up for themselves against tyranny instead of sitting around and complaining about it.

Wow, Bean@home, you are one fatuous meathead. I'll bet you still believe that 'The One' is going to bring the boys and girls home any day now. Or that "one of the greatest lawyers in America" didn't remember whether or not she did any of the many things criminal about which she was questioned. Or that she and her hubby "lost" those subpoenaed papers for several years before they turned up in her WH bedroom.

Meet the new boss. He's not only the same as the old boss, he's the same as the next boss. And the one after him.

i dont know if its headed there,,, but its sure due

Wow guys that was great! Just checked back, well alot has happened since that posting, OWS has come and almost gone. Those brave people made it apparent that not enpough has happened yet, lets just see what the collapse of the Euro brings to our shores! I hope for a non violent revolution, a peaceful housecleaning. Change is a good thing people, dont be afraid!

I wondered outloud if Maxwell Smart himself showed up to retrieve it, unless of course he had the cone of silence on at the time and wasn't aware.

Hahahahaha.... This is really so funny.

First of all, not only is this 1970's technology, the FBI does not need to put a GPS tracker on anyone's car anymore. Each and every one of you already gave them the permission and means to do so when you went out and bought that fancy CELL PHONE you carry! hehehe... not only can the FBI track you, anyone can that has a computer!

They can track your movements AND listen to everything you say. So I think that this "1970-GPS-tracker" looks pretty suspicious to me anyway......

"I wondered outloud if Maxwell Smart himself showed up to retrieve it"

Nope... He missed it by that much ---> =

For all you sayings it's 1970's Tech, I really doubt that considering its in the GSA catalog for about $5k.

Tried to post the link but it comes out messed up so google "Guardian ST820 GPS Tracking Unit" and look for the GSA link.

1970's Tech? Did they have GPS in the 70's? I was around then and I sure don't remember that. As a matter of fact they didn't have cell phones either.

Yes, GPS was DoD only back then, I was thinking the same thing but decided to look up GPS history first.

They had cell phones in the 70's we just could not afford them and they were not offered to us.

What Fletch is saying is this is current tech. Still over $ 5,000. per unit which means it is new or close to it. Sorry for steping on you fletch just trying to help.

Fletch, out-of-date is generally the best that the FBI can do: by-the-book. Some 'Duddlie' ran this op. Next time they should send a CIA Action Team or Special Ops. Those guys aren't stupid enough to wait for tens of thousands of mindless bureaucrats to satisfy the 'Good & Stupid Government' types.

I wonder if this was his dad's car before...HE sounded like someone the FBI could have been tracking...maybe they put it on his dad's car a long time ago and there it sat until the kid found it!!!

Must have been active because the story said the FBI came when he started messing with the gizmo.

It said they came once his friend posted it online.

What was that game back when we were all little? The one where someone says something to the next person in line and down the line it changes and at the end it is usually something completely different.

Exactly the reason why you don't want people making judgement calls and being involved in your life anymore than they have to be.

Old equipment means the Feds have used up so many of these devices that they are now dipping into the old stockpile! At least, in their defense, they are putting them to some use before tossing them out! Har.......

The "Guardian ST820 GPS Tracking Unit" is listed in the GSA Catalog, it's not old outdated equipment.

There's also tube televisions, among other "antiques". Just because it's in the GSA Catalog, doesn't mean it's not "out of date".

Third times a charm on spelling 'constitution'?

Aha! So YOU are the spell checker. LOL

Where are they located? What do they look like?

It's true.

yes, it is true. I remember a murder investigation in which the police first accessed cell phone records of anyone in the area of where the body was found.

When they found someone to question, they confronted him with his cell phone records.

What do you think OnStar is? It sure as @!$%# can do more open your car doors when you forget your keys and locate you when you are in an accident. The thing is hardwired into every system in your car. It's even got a micro-phone in your car. when you press that OnStar button, they know exactly where you are and they can hear your talk. They can open your doors remotely and shut down your electrical system, if necessary. What's stopping them from doing any of these things without your knowledge or permission?

My new 3g laptop I'm typing on does too. Just add Streets and Trips. Ready for use. Pretty cool.

tom - when your vehicle is stolen you will be glad to have it.

Actually American, if a car is stolen it is the insurance companies that are happy the car has a GPS.

Also, don't you think the fear of losing your car is merely an excuse or tactic? I do.

It sickens me to think that everyone is being tracked. How has this come about?? Fear. The constant reminder that someone or something horrible can happen to any one of us or worse yet our loved ones.

We are no longer the Home of the Brave or Land of the Free. We are the Home of the Fearful and Land of the Corporations.

I don't have to worry about this at all:

1. I live in Chile

2. I don't own a car (with gas at $6/gal, I may not for some time).

Wow you guys are paranoid. No one is forcing you using Onstar.

Do you think the FBI has nothing better to do than spying honest citizens ? They might track you under a false thought, like they would arrest you for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If you're clean there is no reason to feel insecure.

This guy is a muslim, and his dad was an extremism who was killed recently abroad, it hurts no one tracking him and verify he doesn't plan anything stupid.

You know those stories about big brothers and people loosing their rights are getting old. Did they let you steal CDs and VHS back then ? Now you easily can.

What is restricting his freedom by installing a GPS on his car ? He can do whatever he wants, except illegal things. Is it part of your freedom doing illegal things ?

Then why are you here, Cinclodesfuscus?

Chris:
Illegal search and seizure, abuse of power are very real possibilities, no matter what type of life you live. I, personally, am concerned with the Patriot Act or any other document or law that gives the government too much power over any citizen. If this young man being tracked by the FBI solely because of his father? Was there sufficient reason or evidence other than association, to be closely watching him?

Abuse of power is very real and we must insist on diligence in protecting privacy rights just as we must insist on the government protecting us from those that would do harm; not one over the other.

Chris:

you are clueless. you don't need to subscribe to OnStar service for them to work. The hardware that OnStar and others like it comes pre-installed and standard on all new car models. This means the microphone and GPS tracking unit ect. are already wired into your car. Even if you don't pay the monthly fee for the service, they can still track and bug you. You think Big Brother only limited themselves to tracking and bugging people who pays for the service?

Imbedded GPS capability built into all our gadgets can be great stuff, has saved many lives and makes things easier and better for us in many ways. The technology has negative possibilities and much of it was developed originally for military purposes, but it's widespread use today is because consumers want it, not because of some big government plot.

Most who are going on about Government recording our every move, monitoring every conversation are taking themselves way too serious/watching too many movies- most of us are very small fish, probably the only reason we ever catch it's interest is if aren't paying our taxes.

It can be and is abused. Along with all the new technology being developed faster, we as a society are becoming more and more structured, regimented and organized. Our personal identities, autonomy and privacy are daily being reduced, and for the most part, we are willingly giving it away(w/some help via the power of social engineering and the mass media) in the name of convenience and social networking.

I might be more likely to be the subject of an invasion of privacy than some because of lots of international travel and past employment in some possibly interesting vocations, but I am far more concerned with big business and society in general slowly pulling my children into a virtual, superficial world, part of a big machine, than I am about inappropriately becoming a "person of interest" and a target of scrutiny by the government.

If I ever get to the level of paranoia I see with some posts, I know it is still possible to largely get off the grid--- get rid of all the gadgets (phone, cell, television, computer, ad nauseum), get rid of the credit cards, investments and bank accounts, drive an old car(or don't have one at all so don't have to register it), tweak the outdoor skills such as gardening and animal husbandry and get as many necessities as possible via trade/barter. Definitely Do Not get on computers to make a stand on political issues or whine about Big Brother on the Vine...............

As for the guy who found the device, if were me and I had nothing to hide, I think I would do it just like he did, with one more step--- make it public to get them off my back, then drive to the nearest lake/river and throw it in(might want to take out any batteries first so no leached chemicals and no possibility of it being tracked/found). Don't see how they can claim a right to it as they kind of gave it to me by putting it on my car, but I'm thinking it probably needs a receiver/monitor on the other end to be a full working unit, so is of no use to me.

Demon God Majora,

Cinclodesfuscus is doing what most Chileans were taught to do the hard way by Pinochet and the School for the Americas' renegade Mengeles: waiting quietly for the Spaniards to try to bring some of the b**tards to justice.

Demon God and Jack Sprat: I am in Chile because I can maintain the life style I had in the USA at half the price and I believe I can avoid the meltdown of the US economy that many of you see coming. As for Pinochet and Mengeles, they got their just desserts. Today's Chile is not a Third World country, as many seem to believe; we get just as high a percentage of Chinese goods as you do. There are a lot more Germans here than Spaniards and the Germans got here about 150 years ago. Mengele was in Argentina (or was it Brazil?)

Chile is united about the trapped miners and getting them out. The break-through of the exit tunnel occupied two hours on three TV channels today (out of about 40 channels).

The extremists here are Mapache ("indians") not Islamists. "Delinquentes" are captured quickly but soft-hearted judges release them or give them short sentences so they can steal again to support their illegitimate kids. Like the USA, CHile has a large division between the rich and poor, but a large middle class. At least, the taxes are equally distributed.

Say it when the Goon Squad's in your living room. Bobby. These guys use sniper rifles to kill mothers armed with their infant babies, when they're not burning 70 children alive at one fell swoop.

Amen to robert. This is a hate crime.

A hate crime? Are you serious? Yes, how dare we allow our intelligence gathering agencies to GATHER INTELLIGENCE. This kid had an extremist father that died in shady circumstances in a middle eastern country. Of course he was being followed. I love how the anti-government people are on here with the belief that the FBI just decided one day to put a tracking device on this guy's car for no discernible reason. I'm sure they have nothing better to do then to follow around a kid in his car for no reason at all, just to freak him out.

All I can say is. WoW!

Very true that George Orwell has come true. In this electronic age, your credit card records, bank records, location, e-mail records, Internet hits, etc. can be accessed anytime by the various Government agencies, with a warrant, and in some cases without a warrant. Just have to keep yourself clean.

Agreed. Orwell's "Oceania" is here, and it used to be called the United States of Amercia.

we have been living in Orwellian times for quite a while. look up and smile next time you pass through an intersection.

Ummm, I take it that you never bothered reading the PATRIOT ACT which the Republicans pushed through Congress, dear. Your right to habeas corpus is long since gone. And, yes, that does kind of undermine the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Took you a while to notice, huh? Maybe you want to try listening to those lefties who have been trying to tell you this for a while, now.

Apparently, the only right that's left is the one to remain silent. That's until the "authority" breaks out the water-board.

Bean@home: Ummm, I take it that you never bothered reading the PATRIOT ACT which the Republicans pushed through Congress, dear. Your right to habeas corpus is long since gone. And, yes, that does kind of undermine the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

So...I wonder how the Republicans (especially in the House under a "Speaker Boeher") would be able to reconcile things such as the Patriot Act with their new "promise" to America that any legislation would have to specifically link to the place in the Constitution to which it pertains. hmmm.

Do you know what the writ of habeas corpus is??? is has NO applicance in this case at all. oh, and by the way, nothing can undermine the constitution unless you add an amendment changing the constitution.

The government does it daily. The Patriot Act is just one example. They are starting to pretend the Constitution doesn't exist.

Sorry HRDawg, the Right to Remain Silent isn't absolute either. Probably some attorneys or folks a little better versed than I will see some errors in my examples, but you can be compelled to testify in court (as a Material Witness??), bet we all remember past news articles where reporters given choice of jail or telling sources, etc, am sure there are lots more examples.

Q34635730894: You can't change the words of the constitution w/o an amendment, but what it means to you and me has constantly changed and very few if any parts are absolute. The Courts constantly interpret/reinterpret and define how it applies to law. Self incrimination (mandatory breath blood for alcohol), Innocent until proven guilty(hand over driver license on arrest for DWI), Keep and Bear Arms(Concealed Weapons or automatic weapons prohibitions or controls), could go on all day w/examples.

Our forefathers are probably turning over in their graves.

Bean@home,

Who are the lefties to whom he should listen? 'The One' by whom most of the other lefties still swear? 'The One' who rescinded the Patriot Act? 'The One' who stopped the wars in the Middle East? 'The One' whose FBI just got caught with its pants down? The 'One' who prostrates himself before Muslim potentates, in contravention of 234 years of American tradition? That 'One'?

I hope that he handed it back in pieces. I do not like the "so-called" Patriot Act. When you give into fear and expediency you may as well close the cell door behind yourselves. Eventualy the Government will find a way to make all but a small portion of the public felons. Kiss your rights away and just ready yourself for the United Police State of America.

arm yourself just in case.

Elk,

It IS rather an open question, isn't it? Who did actually put an out-of-date bit of spyware on the car of the son of a 'Muslim activist'? I wonder if they were stupid enough to make sure that it was 'discovered' by using a Muslim mechanic.

Remembering back when and how it was enacted, I think the biggest ironies w/the Patriot Act was how the public (and Congress) was manipulated right down to the meaning of the Acronym.

Right after 9/11, how could anyone stand up against anything regarding Patriotism and being United? As a reminder, the acronym spelled out: Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism.

Anytime the government starts trying to make laws to provide "tools" to "intercept and obstruct", those proposed laws deserve very close scrutiny. However, those pushing the legislation knew that most of us Americans would not bother to read beyond the headlines and the acronyms. To vote against being a Patriot or even spend any time discussing it at that time would have been political suicide. The Patriot acronym was politics at its worst; cynical, manipulative and condescending.

As big an irony was that the administration that pushed the legislation was the party with a fundamental plank of literal interpration of the constitution, individual freedom, and limited government. Big shaper of my political orientation, cause I can't help wonder who's liberty they are talking about, to do what?

Totally agree Austin. I'm tired of our rights being abused and taken away in the name of "the boogeyman".

I agree it does look like something used in the '80'sor even '70's. Knowing there are much better devices out there that the government owns, I doubt this one came from the FBI. It was probably placed there by someone else. If I were the kid I'd want the FBI to find out who put it there. But he and his friend seem to think the government is out to get them, as are so many other people on these boards.

If the long tubular thing is the battery pack, it probably uses six C cells. Anyway, it was probably made in China and their batteries are lousy.

It looks like a rather expensive military tool.

Not the tiny crap devices we have.