Your statement shows how ignorant you are.

I agree with you. The Bible states clearly. Who knows, these Pharaohs were so arrogant and they were so dependent on superstition and magic to direct their lives. They probably thought that they would have slaves in the life after if they were buried close to them. Also rotating the workers every 3months suggests that the work was so grueling they could not last longer than that. Nobody has to say the other is stupid. This happened thousands of years ago.

does any of the artwork depict Laborers being paid by Pharaohs ?? then go from that, more than likely it was barter system for them..clue; they ate well..something like China, work for $3.00 a day OR eat rodents, spiders and snakes..make your Choice....

You should not choose based on a book of myths....

Elena - Care to provide a link to specifically where the Bible states that it was the Jews who built "all of the pyramids, plus the monuments"? Also the great pyramids were built with stone - not mud-brick - care to explain that little discrepency?

The Bible does not say that Hebrew slaves built the pyramids. Indications are that it was part of their religion to build those monuments. Did slaves build the cathedrals in Europe?

No, no, no people. The pyramids were landing pads for extra-terrestrials.

Actually the pymarids weren't built by the slaves. It was the first Las Vegas of it's kind.

Don Trump was there with his trademark combover, hiring cheap labor.

LOL!

You have to ask God for that, we can't give it to you. It takes just as much energy to believe as it does to not believe.

there is no mention any where in the bible about the pyramids, which seems kind of strange, anyone?

MarMar,

My exact point, the bible is nothing but interpretations by arrogant people who are dependant on superstition. Or, arrogant people use the bible in order to control ignorant, gullible, superstitious people.

Religion was created to keep the poor from murdering the rich. Period.

That logic is very laughable since most of history indicates quite the opposite. Also, poor people had no viable means to murder the rich. I'm sorry, but that was a very unintelligent statement, period.

James,

Are you kidding?

Do you even know who made that quote?

I'll give to time to look it up.

HAAAA!!!!!

I don't know how the bible vs science discussion always deteriorates any important news.

All I know is that the Pyramids were built by paid workers with probably benefits, health care, 3 month work years, beef or lamb choices for dinner, housing and even nice graves, we can only make one conclusion from all this.

Capitalism thrives for over 4,000 years!

Rogue,

Capitalism has not thrived for 4,000 years. If it did, where is the capitalistic society of Egypt. What about the Greeks? Their Capitalistic Society failed, as did the Romans. In each case greed took over the these once great societies were doomed.

Extreme Capitalism fails just as absolute communism destroyed the Soviet Union. The truth lies somewhere in the middle.

And God dug the Grand Canyon with a spoon in 6 days, Jezz people get a life.

The bible also called bats birds. I wouldn't put any stock in that old, dusty tome.

elana, Im really interested for some clarification on this.

Do you respond: (A) "I (elenaabbot) was there, 4000 years ago, and I witnessed slaves building the pyramids, just as the bible says."

Or how about: (B) "I (elenaabbot) am GOD. I wrote the bible myself, so the slaves did build the pyramids."

Well ok then, how about this: (C) "I (elenaabbot) am a scientist and I was present on the site with the archeologists and scientists. I have other evidence to show that the builders were infact slaves."

Of course any answer you select will have to be backed up by some proof.

Until then I believe that these scientists may actually know a thing or two about this subject.

FYI-The bible is a book in the fiction section

ByOurExample

Obviously you missed my sarcasm.

Trying to "discuss" news items of Newsvine is a massive waste of time. This seems to be a clubhouse for dingbats and rightwing fundamentalist religious nutjobs. The first poster on any Newsvine "discussion" board tends to set the tone and any real discussion quickly goes down the tubes in a fireball of ignorance, meanness, and close-mindedness. Newsvine sucks and I'll never be back. It's a massive waste of time.

inga-386315

Buh Bye!

Don't confuse the Bible believers with facts like no mention of the pyramids nor is there any forensic evidence for any exodus from Egypt. In fact, Herodotus who traveled Palestine (the fifth province of the Persians out of about 20) about 2500 BC, never mentions any Jewish civilization nor any temple in Jerusalem, but he has much to say about the Egyptian temples which are still standing. Now I am not anti-christian ... in fact I want to see this religion grow for its social value.

Chill People...Building stuff is hard work, and it takes time.... but there were plenty of Kodak Moments, and "Egyptian Idol" was the media favorite for all who were there. Ok?

I read Harry Potter and its just as believable.

There is no discrepancy between what the scientists have found and what the Bible says - it just takes a little bit of study to discover these things, tiredofsilly and Walt Smith.

This find is from the 4th Dynasty, which pre-dates the beginning of the Bible's record of the Hebrews in Egypt by about 600 years from the END of that dynasty.

Living in US for last 13 years, i can't say i have quite become used to this uniquely American phenomenon of utter laymen having the preposterous gall to question and second guess scientists and historians who have dedicated their entire lives to excel in thier chosen fields. Quite remarkable.

Religion, taxes or politics- all in bad taste to talk about and all the regular flavor at this conversation banquet.

As for the bible thumpers, you don't need to prove anything to a non-believer. Are you trying to convince yourselves? As for the bible bashers, I'm not sure how bashing books brightens your day but whatever makes you happy. You're not the first and not likely the last to bash the bible but still it survives. Miracle?

If you look closely at the pic of the mud brick tombs you can tell that each worker was given a free membership to the local gym also. 21 cattle and 23 sheep, three month shifts seem to specific. what was the evidence they found? ledgers? receipts? quickbook files?

They were all union workers and they promised their support to pharaoh obama if he would guarantee them they would never loose their jobs because he would pour stimilus (tax payers) money into two of the major Egyptian pyramid construction company's who also supported pharaoh obama. Pharaoh obama also made sure they had a good burial plan so they would be buried next to his pyramid so the shadow of his pyramid would cast its shadow over their tombs.

Ignorance perpetuated by those who misread the bible.

Vickes from the South.

I'll stake my bets on the Bible b4 the ignorant Pharaohs...

also, in those days the info was very dodgy, so the Bible is a good source as any even for nonbelievers.

Funny how people will rail against other folks belief in one ancient book (the Bible), while wholly accepting another ancient book (Darwin's On the Origin of Species) at face value, with no real world evidence behind it. Understand that I am not saying the Bible is right. I am just saying that Darwin is laughably wrong, and yet "scientific progressives" cling to it in good faith just as tight as any Christian clings to the Bible.

Transitional species don't exist. They never have, and there are no fossil records of any. All the fossil records are of singular species. How about that great find for evolutionists, the Coelacanth? That extinct fish that... What? You just caught a live Coelacanth? But we already said that turned into a...

Amusingly, I have heard lately from the evolutionist religion that dog breeding is a good example of evolution. We see many different varieties of dog, through careful selection and breeding of traits. Alright, agreed. So tell me geniuses, show me genetically the breed which is no longer a DOG. Or the one through all this modification that will in a few or even a few thousand generations no longer be a dog. And how long has this sped up, purposeful manipulation of breeding stock been occurring? Thousands of years of genetic manipulation? And not one single animal that isn't still genetically a dog? I could go on and on, and probably will. Don't even get me started on the Bombardier beetle, and the probability of randomly developing it's explosive anus through generations without blowing itself to smithereens in the process. Yes, but evolution is a fact, Darwinist zealots will tell you with all hopeful faith.

The only failure that Christianity has had in debunking Darwin's new religion is making it an "either or" question. If Darwin is wrong, the Bible can still be wrong. If the Bible is wrong, Darwin can still be wrong.

Nahh, it wasn't the salves who built the pyramids, they were really built by cheep Mexican illegal emigrants--weren't they?

Right and the bible is never wrong is it? Your ignorance is astounding to say the least. Scientists have knows this for years why its being reported here as if its new is beyond me. To read some of the posts on here tells me exactly why this world is in turmoil ignorance and stagnation, Darwins book holds more truth than any religious text in print today. There is significant more proof of evolution than anything made up in the bible. Most of you who profess to believe in the bible cannnot even say where it comes from or who wrote the bible.

Again Snappy, I never said I believe the Bible. Why would you think that I do? Just because I don't believe your fanatical Darwinist religion? I never said the Bible was right. I said Darwin is wrong. There is a difference, but because Darwinism is your chosen faith, you choose to lash out at someone who dares question your belief system. And no, there is no proof whatsoever in Darwins writing, there is possible coincidence that fit a theory which has since been disproven. But like Christians defending their Bible, you will defend yours and just as vehemently. Thank you for proving my point.

And MrIndia, do you really believe that only "utter laymen" may use Newsvine?

oh really? if they were not slaves, means the whole bilble, and those that wrote it were complete liars? sry, but people got to eat, and if you died, and were tossed in the hole for the slaves so what, you were still a slave. This is all part of aincent propaganda. Kind of like our future slave camps comming soon to a state near you. You paid for coffin... a plastic liner they dump you and 3 of your buddies in, all paid for by the US regime. They will feed you as long as you work for your pay, or you will be gassed, if unable to work, if not beaten to death. What do you think of the "detention facilities" scattered throughout the US? People are dying in them, and who even knows untill now? ooops i take that back, when did proplr start giving a crap untill now?

Now we have this new print, slaves were paid? givin a "good upper class type burial? if you buy that, i have some ocean front property in the Gillett wiscon i'd like to sell ya for a real deal! lmao

Yo Ignatius - Darwin's obeservations have been supported by empirical scientific evidence. Go to your nearest library and read about the lifecycle of Drosophila melanogaster - The common fruit fly and how its lifecycle has been shown to support Darwin's evolutionary theory.

All this is high school science. You must have dropped out in middle school.

Ah yes, thank you for that. The fruit fly. So easy to breed generation after generation. And it can be used as a good example for how dominant and recessive genes work. And just think of how many different species have evolved from the fruit fly due to experimentation and/or observation in the lab. Oh wait, there aren't any? No, there aren't. The fruit fly is still a fruit fly, and no organism produced from fruit flies have ever been anything other than different kinds of fruit flies. And no other organism has ever been made to produce a fruit fly that didnt begin as a fruit fly. So yes MrIndia. Good point. I guess.

I think what Ignatius (bishop of Antioch who was martyred under the Roman Emperor Trajan (died 110)) is trying to say is that being religious or being atheist are both forms of faith. What one adamantly believes without any solid proof amounts to faith.

I myself am a believer of a creator and I love the teachings in the Bible. I am fond of Christ as a historic figure and I believe in his teachings...but I don't have any solid proof. Nor do those who think it all happened by chance since God does not interfere directly in our lives...or believe in the big bang theory, etc...

No matter how you cut it, life and the universe are beautiful.

Period.

without trying to say the Bible is right. How can this article prove the bible is wrong? when these tombs predate the time moses was presumably there. also because there were presumed paid workers does this mean there were no slaves? also there are two cities in egypt with the same name, but the first was leveled to the ground even though it was clearly just as magnificent. why? Have you ever heard of a cover up? you don't think one ever happened in the past? The past is full of things that will never be 100% explained but die-hard followers (either side) will defend their positions with little or no evidence.

MrIndia -I was born in the GREAT US of A and can say from living here for 28 yrs that i still don't understand people questioning every scientist and their discoveries?!?! But still I learned not to waste your breathe trying to argue with troglodytes like Ignatious. He probably believes the earth was created in 6 days some 6-7,000 years ago and doesn't realize evolution takes thousands to millions of years to take place. There are examples of it all over the place if you know where to look, just google it. I also attached a link showing recently in 2010 where they found a small 10-15lb. dinosaur that eventually would evolve into the 6 ton Carnivore of Legend... T-Rex...

Actually, its a Pizza Hut over a KFC. Have to bribe my 5 year old everytime to get him to join me.....

Oh, really? I have been there and must have missed them. All I saw was the camel market and the poor forlorn Sphinx overlooking a small snack stand. A gate to the pyraminds? When did this happen?

It was a spellbinding experience, to say the least. To stay in the Mena Hotel and look out over the Great Pyramid while having morning coffee was incredible.

"ignorance is bliss"

-anonymous

Why would you exclude the biblical historians?

I don't mean to sound so left and right sided, because there are many historians on either side who integrate quite equally and effectively both sources of information. But already in this thread people have began to polarize either religious biblical histories with what is described in history books. And although I have to say that neither side can be completely dependent without the other, by separating them here, I am acknowledging that there is still a great divide between what people believe is religious history and what people believe is scientific history, although they are quite intertwined together.

I agree with that, I happen to be one to know that they are closely intertwined. It's all too obivious. It's just like when twenty people look at an object, the object does not change just because of twenty different explanations.

Your actually right Sara. ALL Pharaohs were considered a living god on earth and it was an honor to work on his temple. Just like many Europeans did in when they worked and built the great Cathedrals we see today--(except for the living god part). I could go on and on---but then this would become a lecture.

yea...and soon we can do the same thing. just because 1 is forced to someting does not mean they dont get food, water, and maybe some pay.look at people in prison...altho they are forced to work, ans wages are next to nothing, they still do get paid as well...now. outside of steel bars, and barbed wire vs a guy with a whip and a weapon to defend himself...where is the diffrence?

Megaladon - Do you realize that the meals that they ate back then were scarcely populated with meat...You had to be rich to be able to eat meat or on special occasions such as religious events, it is not like today where meat is cheap enough where middle to lower class can eat steak everyday like these workers did...Also they found a mummy in the workers tomb area that had brain surgery...You think back then if they were slaves they would have been given surgery or more likely maybe they would have been given one more whack to the head to just get it over with and not spend money on a slave which was in fact considered money or currency...the facts and evidence don't support your theory on slaves building the pyramids...like Sara mentions your theory is a religious theory not a scientific theory...Look up the definitions and you will see the vast differences!!

Well I have to respond to say that, in fact, most Egypt classes read the bible because it is one of the few sources we have of the time. So they are not oblivious and have done more to appease the Religious cries than people give them credit for.

Wether a resource is few or new, it still has to have accountability. They didn't have Southern Bell or AT&T back then, so they wrote, and they wrote, and they wrote. News didn't travel as fast obviously, so then the need for the quick-fix was not as prevalent. It is ludicrous to think that since we have quick-fix technology now, that we can go back and think we understand so well what the order of the day was based on our own thinking and lack of understanding.

Well also many of the texts were written after the fact and so we are dependent on the will of the orator, which is all we can do. Furthermore, we are also at the will of the translators of biblical texts, and there have been mistranslations which many over some time have sought to correct. It is, regardless, what we have. But I agree, it is difficult to understand the context of the time when so much information has been lost. However, that is how archaeology is beneficial to any type of historian because it is a window into a life of a history that we will never know.

I agree with you there also, but there may not be the over-abundance of mis-translations that people seem to think that there are. There is more truth to the historical translations than not (however believable or not). I believe that there has always been a small form of checks and balances concerning some aspects of history.

it also may have been believed if they died while being a slave, a measure of compensation for the next life was in order, to appease the departing spirit or some god...to me it means the belief these people were not slaves is ignorant. in history class not just the bible, it said the same thing. they even say it in the scribes on the wall...wth...why act stupid?

Many of the stories in the Bible are parables written solely to set an example or to prove a point or to set down a law. Try telling a story and let it go round for a few years before someone writes it down. Then ask for the original story. The major point MAY be there, but the story sounds like something else altogether. So it is with the Bible.

lol...right on man!!

Exactly.

I agree..I saw this on discovery or some other program. I think people are forgetting that there were different dynasties and some may have treated the workers as laborers and some dynasties may have employed mostly slave labor. Egypt has a very long history so some structural changes were likely to occur over time. I think I am right about this, after all, Egypt was a civil society until the Romans.

As a history major I once asked my Archaeolgy Professor why it took so long for info like this to come out, his answer direct quote " If this info is not released a little at a time the great unwarshed mass's would have a great fit" I really did not understand this untill I read some of the above posts. Now 45 years later I understand what he was trying to say. You are right about News was slower, writing on rocks took time and moving them was slower. Good advise from my Grandfather, never belive what you are told or read and only half of what you see. Archaeology will lead you in one direction and the Bible leads in another, take you choose, but in 71 years I have never met anyone who went to heaven and came back to tell about it. I did learn that it was lazy preist's that came up with the idea of giving 10% to the church and this was done about 1300 AD give or take a few years, in France, just about the same time the first bible was written?????

So you're saying that people were stoned all the time back then? Cool!

No, they they just didn't do as many stupid things. That's what's cool!

Tom's Leviticus 18:19 Statement "The Bible forbids a married couple from having sexual intercourse during a woman’s period. If they disobey, both shall be executed."

I guess that we have to thank God for the sinners... because of them humanity was actually able to pro-create and survive!

SO you are saying that according to your studies, you have proof that only virgins built the pyramids? :)

Daniel- I don't think you understand the verse here. A married couple could have sex anytime except when she was actually bleeding during her period. No need to sin to pro-create.

If any of this bible stuff were true, none of us would be here now.

Tom: I really don't think there was less sex in the old days just less people, or more stones you know they drank a lot of wine and beer because the water was on good, Flowers are nice but liquor is quicker.

Carman and Vicky: just love it more truth than fiction.

Tom: Is there a statuate of limitation attached to the virgin and the adultry clauses, because I've been @!$%#ed!

Hey Jen, I was actually joking even though this subject has nothing to do with Egyptian labor/slavery, but since you don't think I "understand" the verse I thought you may wish to see the quote for yourself. This is a website that shows several versions of the bible (which is needed since the Bible keeps evolving year by year), unfortunately none of the versions there contained anything about where it was ok if you were "married." But I am sure when it comes to the internet there probably is, or at least there will be in the near future after our posting. http://scripturetext.com/leviticus/18-19.htm

Hmmm seems a sharp stick to the eye or a rock to the head would have been more effective than grabbing her husbands attackers balls. freud would have had a lot of fun with this culture.

Wow...nice comment. As an anthropology major and Biology minor, I appreciate your well thought out and obviously true generalizations...I thank God you didn't major in science or anthropology too.

NO it was DESIGNED by high intelect.

It was mere 'nobodies' that did the WORK>

just like everything is today.

A structure like that would take years and years of planning, engineering ect. And problaby hundreds of people to head it up and keep it organized and manage the work, keep supplies coming in ect. SLAVES did the work.

Alien equipment and ingenuity, human labor.

yes if they were so intelligent these so called extraterestials why would they come all the way here to stack a bunch of rocks on top of each other so eathly kings could use them for tombs. they had nothing better to do?

umm, its not earth king tombs. the kings were kept as trophies. the pyramids are more like Alien trophy case's. The bigger the better the trophy inside. Its all about status, keeping up with the Jones etc..., traditions from their home world.

What treatment is that?

Read the book of Leviticus if you are so confused, James.

Prove it.

Most of what has been taught came from the bible. Its only in the last 20 years that real facts have started to emerge regarding Egypt.

And what "facts" have YOU checked before making your post? Just because slaves are the lowest order on a societal hierarchy - why must that mean that they were employed in any and all situations?

First off, the whole concept of slaves in Egypt comes mainly from the Bible. Theres actually not much evidence that any slaves were in Egypt. Theres evidence of a class structure with servants and so on, but nothing that really indicates actual slaves. Certainly nothing along the lines of moses and all that story regarding slaves building the pyramids.

Those are the facts I checked before making my post..

Very good Lisa!

To: Rick-525236

I checked my facts by actually reading a book on Ancient Egypt. How did you get your facts? And when was slavery known as employment? Apparently you need to grab a dictionary and look up the word slavery.

Do you really think that the king is going to pay for labor in which he can make the slaves do for free? I don't think so.

Lisa - Oooh - you read a book? I must say, that is more than most on here. Well then - why don't you reference your book when you quote from it? I never said that slaves did not or could not exist in Egypt - I simply find fault with your assumption that they were the first "where did we get the idea of slavery from" and that slavery hadto be used simply because it existed. I'm sure that slavery was part of it in some aspect; but I am not convinced (as you seem to be) that all the work was done by slaves. And yes I do believe that the pharaoh (not king - so much for your having understood or remembered the book) would pay for labor when he could "make the slaves do for free." It is very costly to run a war campaign and if the pharaoh did not have enough slaves at his disposal, he would use hired labor; not to mention the cost of feeding all of those slaves. Also any labor involving skills would likely have had at least some hired workers to do a respectable job. Would you want to trust your afterlife entirely on people who don't give a squat about your place in eternity? You seem to think of the slaves as an unlimited quantity that could be gained by simply picking up a phone and ordering a few thousand more for the next day.

Also - Employed: Involved in activity or work or Employ: to make use of (someone or something inactive ). Apparently you need to read past the first paragraph of a book.

seconds,anyone?

They found Quickbook files at the site. they also found that they all got free gym memberships also. and each person drank 6 glasses of water a day one with benefiber in it. water was imported from Sweden in 16oz bottles.

How many people today are paid what could be considered slave labor. There are so many jobs with no benefits and low pay is this not now slave labor?

Actually 21 cows would provide quite a bit of food. If each cow yeilded about 500 lbs of beef, that is 10,500 lbs of meat right there, plus the extra bits we don't usually eat, such as offel etc. Add the sheep and any other grains or vegetables and you have quite a bit of food per person I would think. But, I wasn't there, so who knows? :)

Good point Neurnr, that would be a pound for each worker, but then again that would only be for one meal for 10,000 workers if you think about it. If you base it on three meals that would divide that one pound piece of meat into thirds which is not much food for such heavy duty labor in my opinion. Maybe soup was the thing of the day... who knows? It was not until I stood before the pyramids when I worked in Cairo that I crasped a true concept of the undertaking that was involved, and even that concept was pure imagination.

Weren't cows a lot smaller back then? Then again, so were people.

Perhaps this number was just from one supplier.

they also ate peanut butter sandwiches and drank tang.

What physical evidence did you look at?

Well lets see, all the stuff they actually dug up for one, is what i refer to as physical evidence. Hieroglyphs and scrolls found in sealed tombs and dated to the time of the pyramids, are another source of evidence.

So you did not actually see the physical evidence, you are doing as most other people including myself are doing. That is to read and discern what it is that you are reading. That would mean you have to depend on what someone else writes as well, hummm!

Be very suspicious when someone characterizes themselves as "a well educated history major". Obviously you cribbed bonehead English class rep. Have another beer and go back to the football game.

care to look up my vitae, the name is Dr. Scott Reese, and if you do a google search, it won't take long.

Oh well gosh, that clears everything up. I'm so sorry. By the way, my name is Ozymandias, look on my works ye mighty, and despair.

That's the problem, too many minds have been googled. I'm glad that you studied then enough to obtain your degree, but obviously you did not study enough to retain the knowledge for today!

Just as I suspected, little man, no education. This is what is so great about the Internet, it is the great leveler of society. I mean, where else would someone of your obviously lower socio-economic background get to razz a intellectual and social superior? so have a great day, and don't forget the reason you logged on today was to get in a few 'private moments' with the computer... enjoy.

I've said all I need to say about faux pas intelligence such as yours!

people who consider themselves as intellectuals often times cannot beleive the bible because they are so full of themselves that anything that challenges them to think differenly must be wrong.

James on point:

Faux pas intelligence? Wow. I've seen some astoundingly ignorant remarks on this thread, but yours are definitely the most amusing.

Scott: It never pays to get into a pissing contest with a skunk. Just a thought...

Whoknowws:

Interesting. You just very neatly articulated my view of bible thumpers. One thing in favor of intellectuals - at least they can spell.

You can't engage me, you need to check your own spelling! Funny you should try and talk about intellect and Bible thumping. It smells like nothing is in your favor.