as much as NASA gets paid for this and if they are really trying to find out how this will affect humans, i say try this test using humans,chit if it pays enough ill sign up for this and I'm sure that there are more people like me that have an illness that keeps them from making an income sufficient to raise their family's and why give these tax dollars to some animal handler to see what may happen to humans under these situations when they can know for sure,and if it pays good enough i would look at it as a life insurance policy,our government already let the tobacco company's kill me so why not let NASA learn something too?

I agree. Irradiating animal subjects to confirm what is already known is foolish, a waste of resources, and possibly cruel to the animals involved in the project.

Not meant to be a rabid PETA or IDA campaigner.....I loathe them as much as the next person. But, if animals are the only option, then perhaps chimpanzees would make better test subjects than monkeys. After all, it has been demonstrated that chimps have the closest DNA match to Humans and thus, the better choice for test subject.

I am not suggesting that chimps are in any way Human, after all, DNA similarity does not = same as. The DNA is used differently in each species. Example: There are plant species, such as narcissus, that have as much as 70% DNA match to Human.

Please use thoughful sensitivity when making animal test choices.

Sounds like alot of tax money for nothing. It is a shame that someone can just say the word 'research
and automatically get money.

I feel that NASA should use non-primates, for example: Politicians.

Unfortunately it appears that the requirement is that they have some skills, which eliminates the possiblity of using Politicians.

Yet another reason we should simply send all the politicians to Mars.

Not that I am totally opposed to using an animal to save a human life but I have to agree with one of the posters who said he would do it for money.

For me I was thinking they still have guys like Manson and a few more locked up in prison that they could test it on, they're not human either...ah...well they don't act human anyway.

Or perhaps we could use the terrorists from GITMO or other prisons.

Dave said:

...our government already let the tobacco company's kill me so...

Dave, how about you try taking some responsibility for your own actions and quit blaming other people for your own stupid decisions?

NASA needs to keep its rockets right here..until this country gets itself out of debt. We don't need no cruelty toward more animals just to tell us that radiation will eventually kill the monkey and it will not be productive for "tourist" to go to the moon. Another waste of money and wildlife..

dillio, the radiation in the van allen belts is far more intense than what is found in interplanetary space except during a solar flare or CME.

anomalee, stay at home do-nothings need to stay at home and stop being a burden on everyone else.

Danwill what point are you making? Nasa has murdered 2 shuttle full of people..and now what IS the point of going to the moon? I can't see anypoint? but I can see Millions of tax dollars wasted on trips that tell us nothing..I can see thousands of our soldiers being killed and not given the right equiptment to even protect themselves..and when they come home injured and maimed not even given a lifetime income from our wonderful government...so..again what IS your point? please and thankyou

murdered? give me a effing break!

every launch is a risk, and the astronauts knew that it was a risk when they went, and every time they fly.

just because YOU have no vision and YOU can't see the point, then NO ONE else can even look beyond the confines of where we are now?

go home and live in your padded cell , safe from all possible harm.

yeah dan right on that..um...I be..lieve...on the first shuttle the O rings..were..bad...hmmm...what happens when an o ring goes bad?..things leak...what happens on a shuttle when things leak? oh I don't know but people blow up and die. On the second one...lets see..Nasa saw the tiles come off..and KNEW they were doomed...but instead of trying something new..like trying to send up another shuttle or getting them to the space station..they just said..everything is fine come on home..oh and btw..be prepared to die. Yes Dan..murdered. Our Astronauts were murdered. I have vision..but I also know we don't need to be goin back to the moon? Give me one good reason as to whats the point? none. The Moon dan is over. We need to visualize the state of our country..there's vision for you.

try visualizing the state of the long-term future of the human race instead of whining about one little group.

you have "vision". yeah, right, aren't blinders great?

Youtube..Moonfaker/Radioactive anomaly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xlKooAbKpM

watch

The NASA scientists should conduct these tests on themselves.

Hey - the astronauts had to pass through the Van Allen belts on the way to the moon. This is not about the Van Allen radiation belts - its about the cosmic radiation they will see for 24 months straight. The Space Station astronauts are UNDER the Van Allen belts - and they come back in 4-5 months.

You just need one star to go nova close and they are dead. End of story. So - the tolerance of humans to long term low level doses of high energy radiation is important to study.

danwill says: try visualizing the state of the long-term future of the human race instead of whining about one little group.

people ARE trying to visualize the state of the long term future of the human race - ON EARTH, not in space. there are millions of problems (mostly created by humans) right here on this beautiful planet that need to be fixed. your motto is evidently: "destroy earth first, we have plans to get to the universe next." you want to jump ship and live on Mars instead of taking care of what you already have.

wrong 12345, I want to create a sustainable future for humanity here on earth AND spread humanity to the stars. we can't ignore either one, because if we ignore our home here, we won't survive long enough to get out there. WE CAN'T AFFORD TO IGNORE EITHER OR PRESENT OR OUR FUTURE!

and if we prove ourselves incapable of keeping our homeworld safe to live on, then we should go by the wayside. (that means extinction)

comanchepilot, the threat is not from nova, but from solar flares, coronal mass ejections (responsible for aurora), and cosmic rays from deep space.

without protection, one solar flare could cook the astronauts, but that level of protection can actually cause more problems from the far more energatic cosmic rays which are incredibly energetic protons (mostly, some are actual atomic nuclei).

Actually, Dan, right now the sun is meek as a baby. . . but those events are more likely - as for protons - ALL of them are Hydrogen nuclei ;-)

What the hell is wrong with you?! You want to see them being radiated....?? Are you helping to pay for this along with the government?

notalinguist, methinks you are a linguist.

Wake up people, notalinguist is simply trying to remind us that words have meaning. There is a difference between "radiating" and "irradiating."

*snicker*

If I started radiating monkeys I would be very, very concerned.

Drsmith-877649,

If read EVERYTHING that they said....it says "but I REALLY want to see them if they are being radiated. That would be amazing." So...the words do have different meanings...but im pretty sure this means they WANT to see them being RADIATED.

code name "bubblegum"

newsvine error, sorry

livinginreality, I would be very concerned if people started radiating monkeys. that would be a very new inexplicable and unprecedented event.

however irradiating them is less of a concern and falls in the normal range of events. you may have strong feelings against such experiments, but I have strong feelings against people radiating monkeys.

"radiating monkeys" would be more like having them fly out of your butt.(or wherever)

I wonder if CERN is developing an LPC (Large Primate Collider) to study the effects of high-energy collisions of these radiated monkeys. Perhaps if the Cubs win the World Series, my butt could be the source of this monkey radiation. Because it won't happen until monkeys fly out of my butt.

EBATAZA I was laughing until you mentioned the Cubs. All I can say is, here's to you crapping primates next year.

I would love to see "radiating monkeys" too. I could just see some hayseed being interviewed by a television reporter.

"I don't know what happened, I just know some NASA goen'ment scientist were out in my field with this big piece of machinery. They turned it on and 'whamo', monkeys flying ever which way. Damned thing I ever did see."

I just figured it out. They're going to invent a monkey radiating device, aim it down and the force of all the monkeys being shot out is going to propel the ship upwards.

I just figured it out. They're going to invent a monkey radiating device, aim it down and the force of all the monkeys being shot out is going to propel the ship upwards

the "Primatopropulsive drive"

maybe the space radiation is the cure for cancer?

Q: "Gee, just a thought here, but how about we just shield the spacecraft and not worry about the affects of radiation?"

A: Too much mass for a Mars journey. Look up "rocket equation."

Statement: "This must be a government stimulus money project. Nobody would invest their own money in such an endeavor."

Response: Because no private entity would do the research, does that mean it's not worth doing??? Many of the tech breakthroughs we have had came from science that no private entity would fund (at least since Bell Labs was gutted). In the days since quarterly profits became of paramount important, corporations are no longer willing to fund math or science that does not have an immediate tangible return. That leaves gov't funding and gov't labs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_labs#Discoveries_and_developments

Now, personally, I think this research is important, for long-term manned spaceflight. On the other hand, I think the mission to Mars is a waste of money, as the probability of success is rather low, and because it concentrates the funding on one big project instead of smaller ones in different areas that are more likely to result in better bang for the buck.

The concern for long space missions is not Van Allen belt radiation, but solar protons and very high energy galactic cosmic rays (GCR). Attempting to sheild with metal may actually make matters worse:

"Two types of radiation are particularly significant: solar flare protons, and high-energy galactic cosmic rays (GCR)....On the Apollo missions, the approach to crew protection was simple: on notification of a large solar flare, the mission would be aborted to Earth. Since the missions were short, the cumulative fluence of galactic cosmic rays was not significant. This approach, however, is not possible for a Mars mission, where return to Earth times will be many months, not significantly shorter than the total mission duration; and would be unlikely for a space colony or manufacturing facility in Earth orbit, with the goal of continuous occupation.

The dangerous components in both solar flare and GCR radiation consists of positively charged particles. Neutral radiation (gammas, neutrons) are a negligible component of the radiation ambient; negative particles (electrons), while present, can be easily shielded. The positive particles, however, are extremely penetrating, and require massive shields. In the case of GCR, a small amount of mass shielding has no benefit, or even negative benefit over no shielding at all, since the impact of GCR nuclei on a light shield will produce secondary radiation considerably more intense than the original GCR."

http://www.islandone.org/Settlements/MagShield.html

psss there were many MANY! major solar flares during the Apollo missions. the NGDC site confirms this. look them up. Solar radiation travels at the speed of light btw so "returning to earth' is not a option whatsoever.

I am betting the monkeys will die, and it will be a horrible death...but we'll never hear about it. The tragedy of it is, space travel in itself is UNnecessary -- we are doing it simply because we CAN -- so the monkeys will die an UNnecessary, hideous death. Like when the Army shoots trussed up pigs' rear-ends off so its doctors can "practice" trying to save them.

I agree. Humans can be so arrogant and selfish. The monkeys don't want to go into space so why is it right to subject them to an experiment like this? Animals were not put here to be subjected to human whims. Having to eat is one thing (I'm mostly a vegetarian but occasionally will eat fish and chicken somewhat reluctantly) but this kind of thing is over the top. It makes me very sad. And if you gave me a chance to go into space, I'd do it if I really wanted to, radiation or not. I shouldn't expect an innocent being to be a test experiement for me.

jannie, have you asked the monkeys whether they want to go to space?

danwill - that is precisely the point - our non-human species cannot speak for themselves (well, not in a language us idiot know-it-all humans speak); if they could, they would say NO. therefore, those who can speak should take up their cause. why don't you go and get irradiated ? it would be entirely appropriate for NASA to use volunteers from the human race.

Better monkeys than people. And may I remind you, Earth has an expiration date. Eventualy long space trips, probably ones with very large crews, are going to be mandatory to the survival of the human specias. Probably not for millions or even billions of years, but the clock is ticking. I would rather start working on the problem now, rather than later.

the most likely "expiration date" is between 800 million and 1.2 billion years.

that would be caused by the (very) gradual warming of the sun as it burns the hydrogen up in its core., which leaves helium "ash".

that assumes that no random events wipe everything out.

even we couldn't wipe out ALL life on earth, the biosphere already survived a total change in atmosphere from a nice stable atmosphere to a corrosive and toxic atmosphere.

that would be the initial evolution of photosynthesis, which turned the nice, stable methane and CO2 atmosphere into toxic and corrosive mess full of corrosive and unstable oxygen.

I think I heard once that anyone who has seen the new Star Trek movie will be granted immortality.

I love it when people THINK they hear unsubstantiated rumors!

"I love it when people THINK they hear unsubstantiated rumors!"

But blurd, without the "I heard" rumor crowd, unsubstantiated rumors, innuendo, and the popularity of the Telephone game in conservative circles, where would the teabaggers and global warmining deniers be? ; )

montanaman probably heard it from the ICR or some crackpot bunch of creationist idiots like that.

can you say ICR?

(idiots creating regression), also known as (institute of creation "research")

I was wrong, 25% dandelion. I guess you can all feel better about yourselves and pat yourself on the back until your head pops off.

and I could be wrong about the creationist source. but that is the type of thing that groups like ICR love to spout, even when it doesn't prove anythong/

They are already here. Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Barney Frank and Odumbo. 

Dubya? Cheney? Old news.

You beat me to it!!

It's unfortunate that it would be seen as unethical to use murderers. We spend so much money to seperate them from society. England had the right idea dumping their worst criminals off to an island(Australia). Protects our citizens and prevents us from having to kill anyone(Death row) or even spending a large amount of tax dollars on them.

Bobby - unfortunately, there are no more unused islands available. they are all populated by an ever-burgeoning human race.

I've always been a fan of Roman Colliseum style death matches for disposing of death row and life imprisoment inmates.

But this would work also.

I always said that....we should start now.

It's a felony to get 2 dwi's in 10 years, do we do the same thing to them too?

People without enough common sense to not endanger my family on the road by staying sober??? Yes, the same goes for them.

But you WON'T hear about the failures. You won't hear about the horrible torture these 1 lb. and a half beings will be put through. And once they have killed these twelve, they will decide they were too small a test and will graduate to chimps -- an endangered species already. I remember the early Russian and American tests using chimps. They all came back dead, died of heart attacks at the terror they were subjected to.

You are right about that, and it's shameful! It's the same thats involved in any animal testing....like you said, they always upgrade to something bigger or heavier that they think CAN withstand what they are trying to prove. And once again, like you stated, they usually die of heart attacks...also the pain they were put through killed them!

If neither of those things kills them,it will be of course, the radiation! But hey...who cares, right? It's all for a worthy cause....

next thing you know , they'll be choking chickens at nasa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVWYcn04sDY

{Jest for the fun of it!} ~_o

Well, bully for you, you happen to only like dogs. What if someone else likes snakes and hates dogs?? You realize I hope how ridiculous and egocentric your idea is.

Well, bully for you, you happen to only like dogs. What if someone else likes snakes and hates dogs?? You realize I hope how ridiculous and egocentric your idea is.

You're an ignorant a$$hole

Dogs are animals idiot. You have no compassion and you could,'t do squat if the government rounded you up and irradiated you, so don't act like you actually have a set.

They use dogs for all sorts of other kinds of testing...so you better start going after them, huh? And no, like you stated, you are NOT an animal person and hopefully, like you said....you at least love your dog.

Wire up your microwave with the door open, put head inside and turn on. Glow in the dark guaranteed.

Laika has already reentered earths atmosphere. I was livig in Russia when the dog was launched.

starbuck-49 you may have been living in Russia when the dog Laika was launched but she didn't come back alive. I cannot get that picture of her "smiling" a dog smile as she was blasted away from earth. probably lasted a few days without food and water. disgraceful.

How about using members of CONgress as guinea pigs - they are certainly expendable and probably voted to authorize such sickness in the first place. No great loss here.

The apollo astronauts went directly through the strongest outer radiation belts. This "skirting of the belts" is complete nonsense. There are plenty of space radiation scientists other then Van allen that confirm his original findings. Van Allen was pressured to recant them. Are you aware that one apollo astonauts that was a navigator on apollo missions isn't even aware that they transversed these belts?

First, why would I believe anyone who cannot spell (or at least use spell check).

Secondly, there were plenty of scientists who said smoking had no harmful side effects in humans...some still say it. The only way to prove to you that humans went to the moon is to send you....but then you'd say we drugged you and you were taken for a ride....and even if you DID believe your own eyes, your ignorant friends wouldn't untill we sent THEM up :P

even flying directly through the strongest part of the belt, the dosage and exposure time are such that the end result is an increase of the probability of getting cancer over their lifetime.

it's not like they are sitting on top of an open pile of fresh reactor waste.

Mars is potentially the place where all the powerful rich people can go to live after they've made the Earth too horrible to live on, leaving the rest of us human and non-human riff-raff behind. Space travel is not an altruisitic enterprise.

Pretty much. But I would argue that moving at least SOME people to mars is better than simply letting the species go extinct.

Don't trust NASA. Don't trust your government to tell you the truth.

People are F'n SICK!

your comment there shows where your mental illness is.

wouldn't that be iraniating?

hey bill ? thats why their looking for another place to live cause they know dam well they cant fix the tons of problems here on earth .