Should NASA use monkeys as test subjects in space radiation studies?
NASA is stepping up its space radiation studies with a round of experiments that for the first time in decades will use monkeys as subjects.
That should be " we know" and my vote is still NO
#1 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:16 PM EDTI think we can learn what Hitler did during WWII with people in the concentration camps. Hitler did all sorts of inhumane "scientific" things to humans and animals. I know there are notes on the outcomes of the experiments. WE DO NOT NEED TO DO MORE EXPERIMENTS ON RADIATION!! Computer simulations will do just fine. This is 2009 for God's sake!!! When people live outside of Earth's atmosphere (outer space), you are taking your own life into your hands. No one should expect to live a long time in space anyways. It's inhabitable!!
What a waste of good monkey brains. mmmm mmmm mmmm. Nothing like fresh monkey brains, tasty stuff if prepared right.
Go ahead and test, monkeys are plentiful and of very little commercial value anyway.
no one is missing Jimmy Carter, then again, how could they, we have him in office again.
Fry the monkeys.
Monkeys??? Pelosi and her ilk are putting forth a 2,000 page proposal that will literally turn us all into monkeys to be experimented on. And like the monkeys, we are too stupid to see what is coming.
GOD gave us animals, and put us in charge of them. We are to be good stewards of all He has given us. That means that we can eat them, or humanely use them to make man's life better.
Let's send all the Disney headed people that voted no first.
Most of you guys watch too much TV and live in a Hollywood projected phony environment.
Wake up and smell the horrible burning scent of humans being massacred all around the world.
That should be " we know" and my vote is still NO
Even without the correct you come across as more intelligent that the ones who thought up this program.
#2 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:23 PM EDTLeave the monkeys alone. Do your tests on captured Al-Quida's. The results would be more realistic than monkeys.
I'd be down for irradiating you and your posse of morons, since you seem like a grade A scumbag that has a good bearing on the value of life. Although the test results wouldn't be very useful to us, being a sub-human lifeform and all.
LOL..go screw yourself Juzzdin....can't handle my sense of humor, get pissed and post bs..don't break your keyboard over it.
I don't know what Justin Z's problem is b/c I think that is a great idea! I love how he didn't come up with a better suggestion-just being rude and ugly. Great argument, Justin Z!
I saw we use criminals who commit heinous crimes to experiment on. I would love for someone to explain to me why it makes more sense to use a helpless, innocent being. PLEASE enlighten me!
It is time once and for all to explain to those who hold animals in such high regard as to put them before man, that from insects, birds, fish, cattle, snakes and even monkeys they are no different in respect. For those who think hooking a dog through the lip with a fishing hook just to catch him is any different than a bass... well I have news for you. It's not! Animals are here... for our use. What ever use that may be. From food, entertainment or companionship. For anyone who can chastise another of what use they have for an animal is simply not right. That means if you want to treat an animal as an equal... go right ahead. However, if someone else treats it as a valuable resource... feel free to state your opinion but as for punishing them you have no moral ground or leg to stand on. Where do I get this view? For bible followers, grab yours and read along with me...
(Genesis 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.) I think that explains it. Oh and then there is Matthew 8:30-32 Where Jesus cast demons out of a man and into swine (that's pigs) and drove them over a cliff to die. Wow, even Jesus used animals for psychic therapy resulting in the death of animals! Animals where often killed, not for their meat but for sacrifice to God as well. In this case Monkey's will be our sacrifice to ensure no humans will suffer. So you animal rights activists... get a grip. Save your money and your time and feed a hungry starving human without harming so much as an insect. Clothe him doing the same. And let doctors experiment on you since you believe animals have a soul. Which the bible states very clearly do not and are here for us to have dominion over. If you want to complain and carry on about something thats really important... oh wait... this is that important to you... me on the other hand I'm more concerned what I'm going to do with all these leaves now there's a burn ban in town!
The Bible has not been a scientific refrence since Gallileo.
We can do this with tissue cultures and exposure on the ISS. We can extrapolate this from Cancer Patients and others who have had significant exposures. There are lots of ways to get this done without destroying living beings. We can do biopsies on astronauts who have extended flight histories. Marrow would be a significant indicator.
I can ask a few astronauts to donate their bodies.
We already have substantial data on radiation exposures without frying a few primates.
All life is sacred.
Figures some religious zealot would jump on with their completely erroneous information. What's ridiculous is that you don't even read your own bible in it's entirety. I'm guessing you are probably a hunter or something and need to justify your bloodthirst for killing as a sport.
Read Ecclesiastes 3:19 and defend your Biblical position now. Hmmmm...what to do when the scriptures contradict themselves....
Patriot, we were given stewardship over the earth and the living things on it. That means our responsibility is to care for those things, not to destroy them with impunity or to cruelly use them however some mad scientist deems it. As Bugs would say, "What a maroon."
It is true that the Bible allows use of animals for food, enjoyment and so on. But no where in the Bible does it say that torturing or being inhumane to an animal is ok. I eat meat. But I surely hope the animal was taken care of well during its life and died a fast death. Not made to be sick on purpose or set on fire for laughs while some idiot is drunk. That is cruelty, and there are laws against that. Of course if you are NASA you are exempt from the laws apparently, AND can use TAX dollars to do it. Appalling!
Its funny because it's Halloween and I just love the Horror Story about Jesus the Jewish Zombie... ;-)
Gunny, I'm not pushing my religion. I don't even go to church these days. Was simply pointing out to a majority of people in this country who do and go by the bible, which is historicaly correct btw and still used today. Not to mention it was the basis of which this country was founded on. It's still relevent today in our money, congress, courts, military etc... I think it's shameful that you'd deny that and even worse mock anyone of their spiritual beliefs. Disrespectful.
Jen, I don't hunt nor do I own a gun :) But if you or anyone else wants to I won't stop you. I'd like to think this is a free country yet and although I don't agree with what a lot of other people do... I let them hoping in turn they'll let me be and do the things I enjoy.
Bob, maybe you should put your application in for NASA. You seem pretty bright... until then let those who are actually schooled, experienced and doing the work do their jobs. I'm not seeing this as torture at any rate. I think there is a difference between treating any living creature harmfully without any purpose besides personal pleasure. I don't think these researchers are doing this for their own personal kicks. Obvisiously there's a reason they feel the need to use a few monkey's to get data. In the mean time keeping to your "all life is sacred" Keep that in mind next time you eat anything. That how many, trees where cut down, insects were killed, how many mice and birds died so you could enjoy your cheerios.
And the constitution was written. And re-written, and amended, and the bible was the old testament, the new testament, and re-written time after time after time by whom? We don't even know and don't say you do, because unlike the constitution, i see no signatures or even full names like Moses or John the Baptist or Jesus, pronounced "HESUS' by the Spanish. And i know what this country was based on. It has relics of all kinds of religious innuendo's all over the money, the capitol, it also has pagan art and folklore, native American influence, (which by the way should be more dominant). I don't disrespect the Bible, i simply discredit it and the Quaran and will not live my life believing in something i don't. I sincerely doubt when i die i will go cloud hopping in heaven, nor do i believe i will be chased throughout eternity with a red hot pitchfork. I believe where i was 100 years ago will be the same place I'll be one million years from now. Dead.
Really? We already know what happens when radiation gets into your body, whether you are human or monkey. Common sense tells us, they will get sick, they will die from a disease directly relating from that radiation the scientists want to zap these defenseless monkeys with. Heartless idiots.
#4 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:31 PM EDTso are the countries like ours who still produce nukes with no clue,or just plain don't care.
Bull@!$%#. My wife has received more radiation for PET scans, MUGA scans and MRIs because of cancer than these monkeys will ever receive and she is still alive. Too many people posting replies that don't know @!$%# about nuclear science.
Perhaps it would be less "heartless" for them to use humans? Please. One day, people will be travelling for extended periods in space. I'd like to know that the effects of this radiation were known beyond simply guessing at it.
Bull@!$%#. My wife has received more radiation for PET scans, MUGA scans and MRIs because of cancer than these monkeys will ever receive and she is still alive. Too many people posting replies that don't know @!$%# about nuclear science.
Well, since we already know so much, then I guess there's no need to irradiate monkeys then, correct? Or was that your point to begin with? I don't know...you seem pretty pissed so I don't know if you're for or against it.
If you still need to experiment, we have an excess of humans to start with.
Yeah, let's start with the islamists.
No, absolutely not. This is an example of man's inhumanity to all that exist in this world. It is sad but regardless on how much we protest this heartless practice they will probably go through with it anyway.
Why not volunteers as suggested? Volunteers from our prison system from inmates on death row, serving life. Or one of their own. There are more than enough people in this planet to spare a few volunteers. Our bio diversity i.e. animals in particular are at the brink of extinction.
#5 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:37 PM EDTMonkeys are not cute little people. I have no problem what ever with animal experimentation (there should be, and are, ethical guidelines to avoid un-necessary pain and suffering). Animals are not people. Quit anthropomorphizing them.
Nature can be so much crueler to the monkeys than humans are. Get real!
If exposing 100 (or even 1,000 or more) monkeys to radiation saves 1 human from a hazard of space travel, fine. Let's get on with it.
#6 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:42 PM EDTNo monkeys are not people but how arrogant is the presumption (which you seem to share) that the next logical statement is that they are less important? Just because they aren't human doesn't mean their lives should be considered disposable or that they are here for our pleasure and use. We have no right to abuse them in any way simply because we have destroyed the planet and want the ability to escape to another one!
Mokeys aren't people?!?!? WOW!! Great f'in observation there! So what is your point? So because monkeys aren't people means they should be subjected to cruel treatment? I would love to hear you argument on exactly WHY that should be the case. So if monkeys could communicate their feelings and fear through speech we could understand, would you still feel the same way? If a monkey was crying and begging for mercy, are you going to say, "Sorry, guy. You're a monkey, and we're more powerful than you, so this is your fate. Go cry to someone else"? Is it b/c they cannot communicate with us? In that case, why don't we just perform radiation on people who are mute??
Nick, I suggest you spend some time in a lab where they experiment on primates and then wax poetic about how harmless all the pain and suffering in the name of exploration is. Something tells me that if NASA found "intelligent life" in another galaxy and we ended up strapped to a lab table while someone took a hammer to our skull, many people would probably change their opinion. If you're willing to do this to a primate, you should have no problem with it being done to you.
Thanks. You seem to be one of the few people on here that has a grip on reality.
Nature can be so much crueler to the monkeys than humans are.
Right, but that's the way nature works. Ecosystem and all... We're injecting something not intended into nature. We're smart enough now not to need to go this route anymore.
The logical way to protect humans from the hazards of space travel is to not send humans into space.
I don't think that Monkeys have the same value and rights as Humans, I do favor my own species, just like other species do. But Monkeys still have some value and have some rights, though not the same rights as Humans. If there was a good justification for this experiment, then the risk and harm might be an acceptable tradeoff, but that isn't the case. We already know the effects of radiation on humans, something we learned the hard way.
The experiment is superfluous and unnecessary.
Monkeys are just polluting the planet with their CO2 emissions anyway. Maybe we can get algore to get behind this movement.
No, we shouldn't test on monkeys or anything else except a viable alternative. We already have tons of data showing us the effects of radiation on humans as well as animals, so why horifically torture animals again?? We test everything in animals which is why humans die from medicines and other products. We don't have the same physiology as the animals, so the products will not act the same in us. The Europeans figured that out a long time ago, but America is still in the dark ages (on SO many levels). These tests are a waste of time and money that could be put to far better use, and it's damn sure a waste of MY TAXPAYER DOLLARS. If NASA wants to do these experiments so badly, the scientists who don't mind torturing animals should be first in line as the victims, not animals who can't speak for themselves in a language we can understand, and creatures that are defenseless against sadistic human beings.
Nick-1439811, do you know ANYTHING about animal experimentation, the true consequences to the animals which in turn affect humans just as adversely, or the fact that we have MANY alternatives that are FAR MORE effective? Have you personally seen the fear, pain and mutilation these animals must endure and the true LACK of care they receive? There is NO SUCH THING AS HUMANE ANIMAL EXPERIMENTATION, YOU IDIOT. You, and those who think like you are nothing but jerk-offs who think that we have the right to use and abuse everything on this planet as we see fit. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you should, and that's where you lack a moral compass and a brain. That makes you worthless in my book, so, why don't we test on YOU? Your torture and incredibly painful death might actually be worth something, because then you'd know what really happens in these animals labs every single day. Of course the best part would be that we removed another piece of crap from this planet. Have a nice day.
"THE GREATNESS OF A NATION AND ITS MORAL PROGRESS CAN BE JUDGED BY THE WAY ITS ANIMALS ARE TREATED." -- Mahatma Ghandi
What the F? I believe it is not ignorance but just plain stupid. When are we going to stop using monkeys for testing. Oh that is right they can't understand anything.
It should be illegal to use these type of animals for any testing.
Line up the child molesters, rapists, and the people who thought of this idea in the first place. Obviously you don't need to be a scientist to know what will happen. Oh they don't know... that is why they are doing this? Give the animals a break.
#7 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:42 PM EDTSomeone here said that if we devalue animal life, it's just a small step to devaluing human life.
Here we see a person who has made a huge leap clean past animal life, and gone DIRECTLY to devaluing human life.
i definitely vote NO...but to all those people who are calling this out for animal cruelty (which it is), look at what's on your dinner plate tonight. that animal went through as much pain and suffering as these monkeys will. and argue all you want, but meat is NOT necessary for a healthy diet.
just saying.
#8 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:43 PM EDTWe need to stop persecuting animals. I'm sure they could find human volunteers. Or...anyone convicted of domestic violence would be required to be a test subject. That might stop a few wife beaters!
#9 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:46 PM EDTWe should have almost infinite data on radiation exposure with human subjects because thousands of people, each day, march obediently into radiation oncology treatment centers and are irradiated as cancer therapy. If these subjects are not followed up and studied then valuable data are wasted. There may be some kinds of radiation exposure cancer patients do not undergo, and if so, monkeys can be used to fill out the data sets. Or I particularly like the idea of using captured Al-Queda and solve our Gitmo problem.
#11 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:47 PM EDTMonkeys are not cute little people. I have no problem what ever with animal experimentation (there should be, and are, ethical guidelines to avoid un-necessary pain and suffering). Animals are not people. Quit anthropomorphizing them.
Nature can be so much more cruel to the monkeys than humans are. Get real!
If exposing 100 (or 1,000) monkeys to radiation saves 1 human from a hazard of space travel, fine. Let's get on with it.
#12 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:48 PM EDTQuit double posting asswipe. And Although nature and be a bitch to animals it doesn't mean we have to make it worse.
I like the sex offender idea and the politician idea. However, people need to realize that these are animals, not people. There is a big difference (at least in the case of most people). Animal testing has brought significant advances to the lives of human beings. I would guess that the people who are so upset about this are the same people who don't have a problem with abortion and using embryos for scientific testing.
#13 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:48 PM EDTIf you are not an animal what the hell are you?Like it our not you are a primate same as a monkey.You complain about abortion and the use of embryos for scientific testing but what about B.S. wars that kill thousands of our fellow species along with any thing else that gets in the way.
Do you people ever learn? First off I do not support this and infact are against it for moral reasons and that I am a vegetarian plus using a human volunteer would be more effective because its not hurting an innocent, helpless animal, and its what you are wanting to know the effects of radiation on in the first place. CASE CLOSED
We’ve got a lot of prisoners here in California that our governor is going to let out because of overcrowding. Let’s nuke a few thousand of these low-life punks instead of the monkeys.
#14 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:48 PM EDTKeep the pure monkeys in the wild.
Test our on POW's in jail.
#17 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:50 PM EDTMonkeys are not cute little people. I have no problem what ever with animal experimentation (there should be, and are, ethical guidelines to avoid un-necessary pain and suffering). Animals are not people. Quit anthropomorphizing them.
Nature can be so much more cruel to the monkeys than humans are. Get real!
If exposing 100 (or 1,000) monkeys to radiation saves 1 human from a hazard of space travel, fine. Let's get on with it.
#18 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:51 PM EDThow many @!$%#ing times are you going to post this? we got it the first time... you are an @!$%#! shut the @!$%# up already!
To those who support this action, please - this way - stand in the line and wait your turn...
#19 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:58 PM EDTIt's wrong to use animals for any types of experiments. We now have so much technologies on our hand --we don't need to do this!
#20 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:00 PM EDTTest the radiation on Rush Limbaugh. That would benefit everyone, including the monkeys.
#21 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:01 PM EDTYou never know, but . . .
There are folks in the space community and at NASA who vehemently oppose peopled missions to the moon and Mars, and the way things certainly appear to work at the dawn of the early 21st century is that sneaky weaseling has been promoted to high art, so is it possible that the true purpose of this bit of Frankenscience is to make NASA and its successful launch of the Ares-1X look bad, less than 24 hours later?
I have no idea . . .
On the other hand, perhaps it is good that the types of sociopaths who enjoy torturing animals can devote their attention to monkeys rather than to people, if only because it keeps them from turning their attention elsewhere . . .
It might have been necessary to do this type of testing 50 years ago, but today we have massive supercomputers and improved knowledge of how everything works, and we also have quite a few people living in the International Space Station at various times--some for extended periods . . .
And there is data on the earlier Salyut and Mir (Soviet, Russian) and Skylab (American) space laboratory missions that can be analyzed using modern statistical techniques . . .
Additionally, one might expect that some of the astronauts and cosmonauts who manned the various space laboratories are alive today and probably would have no problems with some non-invasive medical tests done to determine if they have experienced any long term consequences from being in outer space for extended periods of time, especially if they were paid for taking the tests and whatever, even though none of them were in outer space for the length of time required for Mars missions, but so what . .
So what!
Statistics and other types of mathematics make it both possible and practical to extrapolate long-term projections from shorter-term physical data, and when combined with advances in supercomputing and whatever, this should be more than sufficient to get an accurate perspective on the best ways to manage outer space radiation on longer space flights and missions . . .
But perhaps the smartest strategy is to get a bit of advice from biologists, chemists, doctors, engineers, physicists, physiologists, and other scientists on the best way to shield the spaceships and crews from troublesome radiation . . .
Additionally, common sense strongly suggests that if one actually wants real data on the long-term effects from radiation exposure on people, then how difficult is it to travel to the Ukraine and to study the medical records of all the people who lived in close proximity to the Chernobyl nuclear reactor when it had a meltdown or to visit Japan and examine the various highly detailed information on the survivors of the atomic blasts that ended the Second World War . . .
Probably not so difficult!
So, while it might be tempting to suggest that the Congress would be a much better choice for test subjects in this particular instance than squirrel monkeys, "graciousness" should be the word of the day, and the most important message should be that NASA and the media have identified an excellent area where a bit of downsizing and cost-saving is in order, for sure . . .
For sure!
Who are these people?
I have no idea . . .
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Fabulous!
#22 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:03 PM EDTHow about looking at the bigger picture?
Our tax dollars spent on a program that I
believe the majority are not in favor of, that
program being manned flights to Mars. We
have more serious concrete issues to deal
with here on our little part of the universe
before we start off on our adventures to
discover, and subsequently trash, our neighbors.
What a senseless and pointless means to
spend our resources. Thank You
#23 - Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:04 PM EDTYou're in Easy Mode. If you prefer, you can use XHTML Mode instead. |
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We no what happens..they get sick and die...