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MSNBC.COM TECHNOLOGY & SCIENCE

{"contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"technology-science"}

3,700-year-old wall discovered in Jerusalem

News Type: Event — Seeded on Wed Sep 2, 2009 10:52 AM EDT

Article Source: msnbc.com

science, technology-science

Seeded by msnbc.com technology & science

Israeli archaeologists say they have uncovered the oldest example of massive fortifications ever found in Jerusalem.

{"contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"technology-science"}

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Public Discussion (33)

{"commentId":9197648,"authorDomain":"TWL"}

Azrancher

Comment collapsed by the community

Hey scientist say it isn't so, are you sure the wall built by caananites did not come from "wall evolution", you know the more artifacts you find that support the bible just causes emotional delima's for the left wing athiest communist scumbags who swear we come from monkey's. But then they will probably spin this to say the monkeys evolved to make the wall, yea thats it....monkey's did it.

{"commentId":9197648,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"TWL"}

1 vote

#1 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:11 AM EDT

{"commentId":9197972,"authorDomain":"flustered-69"}

Adamdadm01

Big Foot must have orchestrated it.

{"commentId":9197972,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"flustered-69"}

3 votes

#1.1 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:28 AM EDT

{"commentId":9201016,"authorDomain":"spamcatcher0408"}

John-755418

Not sure what your point is. Nobody disputes that the Bible isn't based on historical events (with the exception of the rediculous Noah story and Adam/Eve story). The argument is that the "God" influences were written into them many years later - after the events had already occurred. Talk about "spin".

{"commentId":9201016,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"spamcatcher0408"}

4 votes

#1.2 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 1:49 PM EDT

{"commentId":9203439,"authorDomain":"andygroeneveld"}

Andy Groeneveld

Hey Azrancher,

That was the dumbest comment I have ever read on this board. Funny how when science disputes something, your side gets all defensive and bags on the data, but when archeologists find something to support the Bible you jump all over the information saying "See! See! It's true!!!

Oh, and by the way: not one left-wing, atheist, communist, scumbag has ever declared we came from monkeys. Why don't you put the only book you know down and brush up on your evolution.

Finally: work on your spelling, punctuation and grammar next time.

{"commentId":9203439,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"andygroeneveld"}

8 votes

#1.3 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 3:45 PM EDT

{"commentId":9204066,"authorDomain":"interns"}

Buffy and Eliot

Wow...you are a complete idiot. Please exercise proper birth control.

{"commentId":9204066,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"interns"}

3 votes

#1.4 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 4:10 PM EDT

{"commentId":9204274,"authorDomain":"jdiffley"}

No Party Affiliation

This doesn't support the bible, it merely re-affirms that during the Bronze Age people lived in the same spot as current-day Jerusalem. It has long been known that that spot has been inhabited, as it was an important rest stop on the overland trade routes.

@ Andy - well put!

@ John - actually, much of the "bible" is mere stories. For example, there is no historical or archaeological evidence that at any time the Hebrews were slaves in Egypt. They did live inside the Egyptian boarder, but that boarder stretched all the way up to modern-day Lebanon. The whole of modern-day Israel was a buffer zone against Assyrian and Hittite attacks. The pyramids were built by the Egyptians, not slaves, and certainly not Hebrew slaves. The graves of the workers, as well as their camps have been excavated. Modern-day Lebanon, particularly the island city of Tyre, was where the Philistines, or Sea Peoples lived; they are better known as Phoenicians today, and were a colony of the mighty Minoans of Crete, who controlled the sea trade of much of the Mediterranean.

The "bible" was written by the Levities, a Hebrew tribe trying for dominance during a period when the Hebrews were split into two kingdoms, the northern and southern Judean kingdoms. Naturally the book reflects a Hebrew-centric theme, making the Hebrews much more important than they truly were historically.

{"commentId":9204274,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"jdiffley"}

6 votes

#1.5 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 4:18 PM EDT

{"commentId":9212721,"authorDomain":"libi"}

Libi

Science is man's study of the works of God.

To not "believe" in science is to not believe in God.

{"commentId":9212721,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"libi"}

#1.6 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 12:41 AM EDT

{"commentId":9212999,"authorDomain":"spamcatcher0408"}

John-755418

No Party Affiliation: Thanks. I knew a lot of that but I wanted to keep it short. Much of the Old Testament originates from ancient Israeli storytellers. We also don't know for sure who actually wrote many of the texts.

{"commentId":9212999,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"spamcatcher0408"}

3 votes

#1.7 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 1:09 AM EDT

{"commentId":9217176,"authorDomain":"Jebus"}

Save Me Jebus

Andy Groeneveld - great post. I love it when the creationists make statements about evolution that we've never even claimed. Shows they know nothing about it.

{"commentId":9217176,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"Jebus"}

2 votes

#1.8 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 10:26 AM EDT

{"commentId":9239872,"authorDomain":"mike-sey"}

Mike Sey

Just casts doubt on the whole notion of an Israeli/Jewish state. Bring back the Canaanites.

{"commentId":9239872,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"mike-sey"}

2 votes

#1.9 - Fri Sep 4, 2009 9:22 AM EDT

{"commentId":9698569,"authorDomain":"RFFNY1"}

R. Ford

Azrancher: Read pages 757 and 812 of "Ancient Egypt, Light Of The World. Read Malcioln's The African Origins Of Modern Judaism. Look Up Kazariah on Google or page 105 of Bradley's "The Ice Man's Inheritance were Montagu say. If racists would take the trouble to visit their local zoo and for a moment drop their air of superiority and take a dispassionate lood at one of the apes, they would find the hair of these creatures lank, that their lips are thin, and that their bodies are profusely covered with hair. In these characteristics, the white man stands nearer the apes. Reading is fundamental. A teacher teaches you your a,b,c"s and multiplication table. But to actually learn, you must use those fundemental tools and read on your own. History [fact} is not taught, but his/her-story certainly is. But then again, history is not like your bowel movement. It cannot be flushed down the perverbial toilet bowl and forgotten. History will always out live a life. So when it is said the if you tell a lie [his/her-story] you must tell it for the rest of your life. But "history" lives longer then "a" life. I once read the man/woman, cannot hide what GOD will reveal. I wonder how mucch the culture theives who now occupy and govern the area the artifacts were uncovered will attach to themselves as if the finding came from their own antiquity??

{"commentId":9698569,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"RFFNY1"}

1 vote

#1.10 - Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:04 PM EDT

{"commentId":9198370,"authorDomain":"patrickmccarthy777"}

Patrick McCarthy

This is proof,,,,,Isreal is owned by someone..

By the by,,,,Whats a cannanite??

{"commentId":9198370,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"patrickmccarthy777"}

1 vote

#2 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 11:48 AM EDT

{"commentId":9200801,"authorDomain":"templeboy"}

Jalmeno

Patrick, Patrick, Patrick,

Funny you should ask. The Canaanites were one of the first groups mentioned in the bible who inhabited part of what is now Israel. There is no detailed record of their existence or demise, but they were probably one of the "nations" that were displaced by the conquerers that frequently came to this area.

As far as this very important find is concerned, it is another bit of evidence that underscores the historical importance of the area, which Israel is very capable of developing into another wonderful site to behold when you come to visit.

Unlike the author of the article, I do NOT believe that archaeological finds are political tools.

I believe that they are wonderful sites that you need to behold when you come to visit.

{"commentId":9200801,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"templeboy"}

2 votes

#2.1 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 1:40 PM EDT

{"commentId":9212734,"authorDomain":"libi"}

Libi

Isn't it amazing that they are still "finding" things like massive walls?

{"commentId":9212734,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"libi"}

1 vote

#2.2 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 12:42 AM EDT

{"commentId":9201592,"authorDomain":"carolee22-1"}

Dayateez

Jalmemo come on, it is just of the same BS, its called a land grap. We need to find some caananites and have them claim the land as they were there first. We now have the proof.

{"commentId":9201592,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"carolee22-1"}

4 votes

#3 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 2:15 PM EDT

{"commentId":9201883,"authorDomain":"templeboy"}

Jalmeno

ROFLMAO

Why don't we try Craigslist?

{"commentId":9201883,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"templeboy"}

#3.1 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 2:28 PM EDT

{"commentId":9202393,"authorDomain":"mmccrae"}

Big fella-863898

The Canaaites were wiped off the face of the earth, every man woman and child(genocide) as stated in the old testament on the orders of God.

But thou shalt not kill.

Azrancher you are just plain wacky your comment make no sense.

{"commentId":9202393,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"mmccrae"}

7 votes

#4 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 2:52 PM EDT

{"commentId":9202568,"authorDomain":"klausunion"}

Eric-791022

Hey AZrancher - real informed words there. I wonder how many times you say "left wing athiest communist scumbags" in 1 day. But I see your point, how could we possibly get any valid information from a scientist? I'm sure that, being a rancher, you can make better-informed decisions about what artifacts mean. Oh wait a sec, you are an artifact.

{"commentId":9202568,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"klausunion"}

5 votes

#5 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 3:03 PM EDT

{"commentId":9203210,"authorDomain":"bkraul"}

bkraul

How long till radical muslims say that it is a super-holy site where Mohammed did something important, and start getting all crazy about it?

{"commentId":9203210,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"bkraul"}

2 votes

#6 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 3:35 PM EDT

{"commentId":9209607,"authorDomain":"ullha1"}

art-1088395Deleted

{"commentId":9203235,"authorDomain":"jwaltizermd"}

Jim-373311

Great. Another ancient artifact for Muslims and Jews to argue about and kill each other over. All in the name of 'religion.' How many wars have been fought and how many millions of lives have been taken from this earth in the name of religion? Ridiculous. 'My God is better than your God." Makes me sick. How have humans lived this long while being so incredibly stupid?

{"commentId":9203235,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"jwaltizermd"}

5 votes

#7 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 3:36 PM EDT

{"commentId":9204524,"authorDomain":"jdiffley"}

No Party Affiliation

It's highly doubtful that Muslims would be fighting over a 3,100 year-old site, given that Islam wasn't in existence till the 6th century C.E.

BTW, in case you missed it, the Jewish, Christian and Islamic deity is the same one, just with different names. "my god is better than your god" is just silly as they all worship the same one. Jews just don't acknowledge Jesus, Christians believe he was a part (the son) of God, and Muslims call him a Prophet. So it comes down to who believes what about Jesus, not "God".

{"commentId":9204524,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"jdiffley"}

7 votes

#7.1 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 4:27 PM EDT

{"commentId":9208300,"authorDomain":"steve25"}

Steve N-476636

No Party Affiliation:

Christian believe in only one God. The nature of God is a mystery, that we can all agree on--Jesus revealed something about the nature of God, i.e., God is a Trinity of Persons, each equal and separate, Father, Son and Holy Spirit which comprises the "essence" of God.

In Genesis we real, "Let us make man in our image". This is the first reference to a plurality in the Divine Essence in Sacred Scripture. Jesus elaborated on this mystery during His life. The important thing in Trinitarian theology is this--the very essence of God is Love.

Now people will ask then why is there sufferning--suffering comes as a result of willful disobedience to God's commands--Christians believe that Jesus is the fullment of the Jewish promise of the Messiah--who established the New Covenant and conquered the spiritual sickness that has afflictted the human race since Adam.

It all happens on a new level, the spiritual level--as God is Spirit, except the Son who has a dual nature, human and divine. The Son assumed human nature (Jesus) to restore the human race to God's friendship.

There is much we will never know about God--but one very important thing Jesus taught is that God is a Father, Our Father, who loves us with an infinite love. The life, death and resurrection of Jesus are manifestations of that infinite love. Each individual is precious and dearly loved.

{"commentId":9208300,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"steve25"}

2 votes

#7.2 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 7:18 PM EDT

{"commentId":9213095,"authorDomain":"spamcatcher0408"}

John-755418

Steve N-476636

I disagree with you on many points. The whole book of Genesis is so flawed that there is no good reason to use it as a point of reference. The creation stories are inconsistent. Who is Cain's wife? Keep in mind that he was married before the birth of the third son, Seth (so it couldn't have been one of his sisters).

Another point is that the bible teaches us that God is not perfect. My reason for saying this is that he created man. Why would a perfect being create something flawed or even potentially flawed? This would indicate that he isn't perfect. He also created Satan - yet another failed creation.

{"commentId":9213095,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"spamcatcher0408"}

1 vote

#7.3 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 1:21 AM EDT

{"commentId":9206835,"authorDomain":"ramsey-1"}

Bill R-354189

Wasn't there supposed to be something about love in those religions? I'm almost sure I recall something from the New Testament about name-calling.

Evolution, I think, is the most relevant explanation yet of Original Sin. Moses, like others, tried to tell people that lion-wrestling was obsolete in an age when people tended sheep or made pottery for their livings, and the value of members of the community could be based on something other than being fierce and dominating. Still, people had those old genes that tell them to kill whoever disagrees or speaks or worships differently. Jesus said, "Hey, set an example; try to treat other people the way you wish they'd treat you."

This story tells us that 3700 years ago people figured they needed a stone wall around their houses and grainaries. Two thousand years ago Jesus's example appeared threatening enough to get him killed. Today Azrancher seems to think he's defending something sacred. We're still trying to overcome those genes that tell us we don't count if we're not beating somebody. Religion tries to help, but it's still humans trying to practice it.

Hopeful signs? Well, some of the comments here are factual. Most of us are toilet-trained. Now if we could extend that principle....

{"commentId":9206835,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"ramsey-1"}

3 votes

#8 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:02 PM EDT

{"commentId":9207349,"authorDomain":"badboy-1"}

BadBoy-1285852

so... let me see if i get this right...somebodies just walkin' around....stubs there toe on something" and discovers" something that's been standing there for at least a week or more......

it's not like there haven't been people looking around there for a while...

{"commentId":9207349,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"badboy-1"}

1 vote

#9 - Wed Sep 2, 2009 6:30 PM EDT

{"commentId":9213896,"authorDomain":"solfayerman"}

Solomon-789636

Wait...could it be? Knowone is turning this dicussing into how Israelis are murderers and the country isn't truly theirs? What a releif that yet another important wall has been found. If the love of the world depended on how many walls we have found, damn we would be cupid by now. But alas, knowone cares about true history, only history that the left wing groups feed them. What does Israel have to do to be left alone in peace. Get over it world.

{"commentId":9213896,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"solfayerman"}

2 votes

#10 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 4:14 AM EDT

{"commentId":9234076,"authorDomain":"Slinger"}

Slinger-958418

What does Israel have to do to be left alone in peace

Well for one, they could start treating their neighbors as human beings.

But alas, knowone cares about true history, only history that the left wing groups feed them

The history you quote is only based on Israeli propaganda and texts that were written by Israeli's. You have never actually quoted true history, but base your beliefs on fairy tales.

{"commentId":9234076,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"Slinger"}

3 votes

#10.1 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 10:10 PM EDT

{"commentId":9214487,"authorDomain":"brtidea"}

brtidea

'But alas, knowone cares about true history'

Some do...

'only history that the left wing groups feed them.'

But not the people who think they can fly with only one wing.

'What does Israel have to do to be left alone in peace.'

Are you very sure this is what they want? You know this by what evidence. Oh never mind, you do really care about things like that, RIGHT?

'Get over it world.'

It amazes me how effective this statement always is.

{"commentId":9214487,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"brtidea"}

1 vote

#11 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 7:23 AM EDT

{"commentId":9214560,"authorDomain":"solfayerman"}

Solomon-789636

You're coocoo for cocoa pops lady. You have quoted me thrice but your comments are so empty. What the hell are you talking about?

{"commentId":9214560,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"solfayerman"}

1 vote

#11.1 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 7:34 AM EDT

{"commentId":9216498,"authorDomain":"walter-koopmann"}

RetiredVet-724863

Art: Your so right! All religions in and on this earth believe in GOD, but call his son by many different names to suit their religions origins. The BIG problem is not that we all, except the atheists, believe in a GOD; it's that the Radicals cause trouble in ALL RELIGIONS to suit their own agenda, not that of the religion they are raping. This find proves there were people living there way before the Hebrews played genocide on the smaller tribes of the region to make the land theirs at all costs - nice show on NatGeo Channel on this very subject a few weeks back. There is no one claim to an area that fostered so many religions, so none have sole ownership of any land. Stop the radicals of all sides and lets start being people - humans - again and live in peace if that is attainable.

{"commentId":9216498,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"walter-koopmann"}

2 votes

#12 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 9:54 AM EDT

{"commentId":9227864,"authorDomain":"klausunion"}

Eric-791022

Hey solomon - who taught you how to spell? Probably knowone...

{"commentId":9227864,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"klausunion"}

2 votes

#13 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 5:23 PM EDT

{"commentId":9234220,"authorDomain":"Slinger"}

Slinger-958418

Well since this was inconveniently found in the Palestinian neighborhood in Jerusalem, I'm sure NaziYahoo will find a way to move them to the other side of that 40 ft wall...called the Palestinian ghetto.

{"commentId":9234220,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"Slinger"}

4 votes

#14 - Thu Sep 3, 2009 10:18 PM EDT

{"commentId":9664909,"authorDomain":"geomguy"}

toomy

The wall dates to the 17th century B.C., when Jerusalem was a small, fortified enclave controlled by the Canaanites, one of the peoples the Bible says lived in the Holy Land before the Hebrew conquest.

-----

Then Israel belongs to the Canaanites and not the Jews?

Or maybe the Neanderthals since they were there before the Canaanites?

{"commentId":9664909,"threadId":"666299","contentId":"3218167","authorDomain":"geomguy"}

2 votes

#15 - Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:36 PM EDT

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3,700-year-old wall discovered in Jerusalem

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