No one can truly predict what the weather will be like next year and surely not in 10 years or more. We are supposedly having another El Nino and have our own natural disasters to contend with. Let them learn to take care of themselves instead of holding our their hands to us constantly. It's called preparedness!

Oh my god! Quick, pass a bill before it's too late! Don't waste time reading it; there's no time for that! Umm...6 Trillion should handle it, nah, make it 7 Trillion, but hurry up! My neighbors just burst into flames! Hurry, don't waste this crisis!

Mr. Kerry said the continuing conflict in southern Sudan, which has killed and displaced tens of thousands of people, is a result of drought and expansion of deserts in the north. “That is going to be repeated many times over and on a much larger scale,” he said.

========================

Maybe it's time to let the Chinese start laying out their fair share of foreign/rebuilding aid. This isn't our problem. If there truly is a climate problem then the rest of the world is going to have to help with the bills. Personally I think it's time to bring everyone home, quit paying out enormous sums of foreign aid, and rebuild OUR country. The rest of the world has lived off of Uncle Sam's wallet long enough.

Here we go again, getting ready for the next debacle --- the President's Energy Bill.

And....... our Congressional folks are still getting hammered over the President's Universal Health Care Bill. But wait, there is the Retroactive Immigration Reform Bill yet to be discussed. Guess we will see that in the next couple of days.

This is ridiculous, it's not about if there's global warming or not - MAN does not have it in his power to regulate the sun, or change the worlds weather patterns. Man cannot regulate volcanos, hurricans, typhons or predict earthquakes.

To think otherwise is STUPIDITY!

Just another power grab by the progressives in the ruling class government - and I am making no party distinctions here - they're both corrupted by progressivism.

awfton,

please stick with the liberal talking points. There is no such thing as "global warming", it is now changed to "climate change". The reason the left made the name change is because they could no longer prove global warming because the globe has not warmed in the last ten years.

Next, can someone please tell me when there have NOT been droughts in Africa or floods in Bangledesh? What about the tidal wave? Was that global warming?

Next, I love how the story starts out with how the military is finally getting around to including global warming into the strategic plans like the military has suddenly gotton on board with the whole "climate change" issue. Then the story tells us that the military started doing it because they were prodded by Congress in 2008 by Hillary and Warner. Wow, the military did a study because they were forced to and now the headline is that the military is concerned with global warming so much they are doing studies and putting the issue in their plans. What a "chicken" and "egg" argument.

This is rubbish, an attempt to deal with the burgeoning opposition to cap and trade by cloaking the same meritless objectives in terms of a more palatable military crisis. Moreover, the problems in Sudan are caused by Arab Muslims in the North not by global warming. What a pathetic twisting of the truth.

What a bunch of horsesh%t.

Global warming and the "carbon footprint" is just a scare tactic used by the NeoCrats

Guess with Al Gore's Climate Change on the brink of killing us all, House Speaker Nancy P should drop her request for all those jets for them to fly around, all over the world in hua? They will cost the tax payer billions and help to warm the plant all at the same time! Oh yea, Al Gore you cant fly around in your jet either, your harming the plant. Can't have it both ways, oh I am sorry. Obama told us to shut up, and let him fix the mess we're in.......

Who is going to help us when Obama is through ,we will be the ones needing aid. This makes me want to spit ,they can not let the dust settle befor they start with the next money grab bill. This world has been going through this from the begining of time and their is nothing that can be done about it , it is the way the earth is and will always be. Sure Im all for cleaning the planet up and doing my part but to thiink that man can have any impact on changing the climate is the biggist lie in freakin History. Stop trying to make a buck off the poor dumb people of this country.

"Never waist a crisis" even if you have to manufacture one; seems to be the thinking in Washington - on both sides of the fence. I am not siding with either party, because they are both crooks just looking to make an extra buck on their investments in "green energy" stocks. Oh, I should be careful posting here, someone may turn me in as a "fishy" poster. Welcome to global warming - oh, and BTW we are having the coldest summer here since 1961.

So, like I said, never waist a crisis, even if you have to manufacture one to convince the kool aid drinkers. This is just another pathetic tactic by Washington's elitist politicians to misdirect your/my attention away from the current POS they are tyring to shove down our throats - UHC(universal health care). What this administration carefully, because they will create one crisis after another so congress has to "act now" and not even take the time to read the damn bills fefore they sign off on them.

When I was learning about NATO policies and the Rules of War, my instructor told me something profound. America and its allies are the only nations rich enough to follow these rules. Our enemies must break these "Rules of War" to win. Therefore demonizing their tactics as unjust and even terrorism. Like the tactics used by our founding fathers to win the revolutionary war. This kind of backwards world policy about the myth of man made global warming does the same. The countires already rich from their own industrial revolutions will again plunder through the "Common Good" to @!$%# on up and coming nations.

Understandably, most of the commentors above have read zero primary literature.
But you must realize there are thousands of peer reviewed papers written by scientists around the world. They demonstrate the fact of climate change and its potentially dire consequences.

The effects we are feeling now will expand exponentially as permafrost and polar ice caps melt.
As land-based ice caps such as that of Greenland melt at a previously unseen rate, there will be major sea-level rise. The heating of the planet will result in massive droughts in some areas and violent storms in others, particularly in the tropics.

You must understand that less significant climate change than this has destroyed ancient civilizations around the world. For example, the Cahokian, Chaco, and Mayan civilizations.
Check out "The Long Summer' by Brian Fagan, published in 2004, for a starting point.
This is not a fairy story.

life goes on, nobody knows true certain destiny..our planet has been changing for eons..I'm not worried about it, I am prepared to migrate when ever, what ever to a safe zone..if I make it alive,,,GREAT !!..if not, well I tried..

What a crock!!! This has been the coolest summer over-all in recent records. This whole "man caused cliate change" is the latest round of BS from the Al Gore kool-aid drinkers. The same meteorologists and media hacks who said the Ice Age was coming before 2000 (back in the 70's) are the same ones who screamed "Global Warming" for the past few years. When the climatolopical evidence started showing them to be the liars they all are, they simply "changed" their tune to "Global Climate Change". The weather runs in cycles, and this "change" is part of one. Or did all the drastic changes they forced in the 70's and early 80's like eliminating freon as a refrigerant, and aerosol propellants, CAUSE this so-called crisis? either way, the only sure way to screw up is to listen to these idiots. Yes, it would be a good idea to clean up the environment, this is a very pretty planet. But giving these idiots the power to regulate your life on the basis of junk science is the stupidest thing we can do since we put that jackass Obama in the White House. BTW, CBY, you are dead on accurate with your assesment.

Actually, It's not totally a crock of @!$%# CBW... Any climate change effects your economy... Especially if it hits the farm belt.... This is irregardless of man made or natural... Climate change can be considered a security threat... If you think climate change is not happening I suggest you take five minutes and read up on the Wine industry and how that has drastically changed the major players and is creating new players in places where grapes would not grow...

You also need to look at the fact that food and crop production in the US has taken nearly a 20% drop since the 1950's due to droughts and mild winters...

It's sad that most people won't believe until it's well beyond too late.. And it really doesn't hurt to go Green... People will complain of all the jobs lost but fail to realize how many get created to support the new infrastructure... That's called technological advancement irregardless...

Also... going green = independence of foreign influence on our energy resources... Oil will only be around for so long... And the wars will only increase as it dwindles down... Your only protection is to find alternative renewable fuels.... And guess what... Your climate plays a big role in who is top dog!

I guess duck and cover doesn't work anymore. Global warming, what a load of crap. I suppose that we're responsible for the rising temperatures on the neigboring planets as well. Anyone do any true scientific studies anymore? Increased number of sunspots, perhaps? We live in a cyclical environment and these hot and cold spells have been recorded throughout modern times. Yes, even before the modern industrial age. We are destroying our planet through deforestation and pollution but global warming is crap. Can anyone Cap & Trade or Carbon Tax. Do some homework and don't be fooled. The only one's, Al Gore, trying to scare us are the one's who stand to profit from this. For all you chicken littles out there, the sky is not falling. If you want to help, consume less, recycle more, and start protesting big business's adverse affects on the natural environment.

You people need to think in terms of economics and military sustainability.... If oil ran out tomorrow I highly doubt you would be @!$%#ing about going green eh... Simplicity of the debate minus the politics... You don't even need to bring in the planet saving crap into it to understand the obvious unavoidable outcome irregardless of your stance on the issue...

Saving the planet is a lost cause anyways... The Sun will eventually go supernova and consume the Earth as it expands to about 256x's it's own size to where it will become a Red Giant... and life on earth will die off long before that... About 1.5 billion years from now... Our Sun gets hotter as it consumes all it's hydrogen and starts to burn helium....

And the likelihood of traveling to another life supporting star system is ZERO... And the likelyhood of man surviving extinction over the next 200,000 years is nearly zero.. And the natural decay of our DNA will take effect long before then as well..

So who cares lol...

U guys and your words that have many meanings. People actually want to see the best made of the worst and you condemn them? Don't get it at all!

The earth is warming. I have a theory that during the Myan days the earth was surrounded by a thin ocean of water that worked as a super magnifying glass to the galazy. Funny how we can't disprove their ""theories and our technology backs their ""cave man predictions.

Whether or not 2012 is significant is yet to be seen but for one I don't think we should put our hands in our pockets to wait and find out. We certainly aren't living up to our best abilities and can do better for ourselves and better the world and lives of humans around the world. I have so many unanswered questions!

This country was started with the best intentions for people not money and power.

"Do some homework and don't be fooled."

You should be doing your own homework and stop being a blind fool.. it doesn't matter what your position is on the climate is son... A little known fact that oil and fissile fuels will not last forever.. That little fact alone is all you really need to know in regards to the discussion.... Everything else makes no difference at all in comparison......

You also need to know the fact that climate dictates the players in who controls the worlds renewable fuel resources.... Because Places like Brazil and America are set to become the worlds next major fuel resource super Powers and exporters.. Why? It all has to do with climate! Bio fuels are hugely dependent on Climate!

This is ludicrous. We're ignoring the 700 lb gorilla in the room.

China is the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases in the world, and has said "no thanks" to agreeing to stop their rapidly expanding use of dirty coal. Within 10 years, their output og greenhouse will double ours.

We can "cap & trade" ourselves back into caves, and it will make no difference, so we may as well start the necessary planning - if indeed we have a problem anyway, which has not been proven.

I think we just passed the 11 year solar activity cycle, so I suspect average worldwide temperatures will continue to decline, as they apparently have for the last 10 years.

What a bunch of BULL @!$%# !!!!!!!

Cookie-550686,

You are very much correct... And those who are against it are probably people that have much to lose by going green... Its either a job, money, company, or their own Country's dominance in the Resource industry.... I wouldn't doubt it if there are some Saudis or Iranians in here to protest it lol...

Nobody else has a valid reason for complaining about advancing our technological stance in the world...

if only 'IF's' and 'BUTs' were candy and nuts, every day would be Christmas.

you loony left wing freakazoids make me laugh.

we are Americans. we do what we have to do to keep this country strong and safe. Why? because we love freedom and liberty, not nanny government. the TRUE Americans will never let this country be taken over by a bunch of crooked left wing politicians. if you think we will roll over and let you losers have this country, then you better put on your big boy and girl panties, because you are in for one HELL of a fight. and when the dust settles, i guarantee the true patriots will be left standing, and you can return to your rock from which you came.

orbust,

I was born in MN and you are hardly freezing your ass off.. Temps use to be -15 weeks at a time.. over the last few years the average temp was above zero... Hardly freezing yer butt off.. The coldest temp I have been in was -80 actual temp.. And yes once in a while you're getting -30's..

Oh boy are we in trouble i just keep hearing sean hanity clone's spewing the same nonsense. Since when is acting quickly and assertively a bad thing? If The vast majority of intellectuals in the world are saying the world is round and not flat guess what your not going to fall off the face of the earth lol.

"For all of you that really believe in global warming stop and think about this"

I don't think that is really the chief concern here... You continue to miss the entire point of going to renewable fuels.. You people can't read apparently...

And btw Global Warming Occurs irregardless if it is natural or helped or made worse by man... It still results in "Climate Change".... And you have to be a real idiot not to notice the change.... Whether it's a cycle or permanent makes little difference.. it still effects your economy....

Again.. Please explain to these people you are chastising for support renewable fuels/green tech as to why it's a bad idea.... Are you going to lose your ability to drive your precious sports car or something similarly stupid?

"These people in Washington want us to "GO GREEN" while China, India and Mexico, whose combined populations are more then 8 times our own, are some of the biggest polluters E V E R WON'T!!! Why? Because its bad for their economy just like it will be for ours."

And why would this even matter to you as some sort of excuse to continue to use fossil fuels and oil? What exactly is your attachment to oil and coal? I'm willing to bet that is lobbyist talk on trying to keep the oil biz a float... You make no sense son..

These left-wing idiots used to tell us that George Bush was always playing the fear game.

YOU KIDS NEED TO LOOK UP WHAT LIMITED MEANS IN THE DICTIONARY! And then attach it OIL and Fossil Fuels... Then learn to do the math... Think a little... Understand how the relates to economics and security....

And the obvious answer is DUH NO @!$%# WE SHOULD GO GREEN!

I don't think energy should be the new driver of our economy. I believe we should be concentrating on zero-point energy, we have the technology. Until Obama takes that seriously, I won't take him seriously. It's obvious he's bought into the whole "life and the economy will be destroyed with zero-point energy" gig. No, it won't, amazingly it will go on. And once again, no, the population doesn't grow with the ease of energy, it gets smarter, it has the time to do so. It's well proven that those educated have fewer children than the uneducated. And that poverty promotes higher birth rates for reasons of survival.

Also, utilizing bio-fuels is a ridiculous alternative in a world where people are already starveing. We pay the Afghans money not to plant poppies and we waste our soil and money on bio-gas? What the ???

Gee, I have an idea, why not allow the general population to come up with better solutions and stop killing them off, or, paying them off or running them off?

Energy isn't a "New Driver"

It becomes a growing part of your economy that already exists.. Renewable energy means we won't have to go blow Iran up in order to ensure we have fuel for example.. it also means they have no leverage over us... This also means your independence!

HENCE!, YOUR SECURITY AND ECONOMY BECOME SELF SUSTAINABLE!

I thought this was a country of leaders and not followers!

We need to move forward and stop standing around with the same old same old.

Vision is the start of everything without vision you have nothing!

The only people against going Green are idiots or people with other agendas... Yes the government is using the Global Climate excuse to go forward.. Lame yes... But hardly why we should... There is NO VALID REASON NOT TO GO GREEN!

"utilizing bio-fuels is a ridiculous alternative in a world where people are already starveing."

Fist off.. America's job is not to feed the entire world.. Secondly, people are starving because there are vastly too many people on the planet... Africa is an example of etiological collapse due to the destruction of most of its rain forests.. It's ridiculous to assume we can feed the world...

Untill we can control sun spots their will be climate change.

Logically 9 billion people is way too many people... You need to let mother nature balance it's self out... Sustaining population growth is not healthy... It's sad but that is how it is... And I don't mean to sound cold... But when you have that many people competing for scarce resources there is nothing you can do to save them... All you will be doing is creating more of them and making the problem worse instead of letting it balance itself out..

So far all I am seeing here is a flame war between fanatical fanboys or groupies... Lefty this and righty that.. That is utterly pathetic people.. Seriously... this a blog for adults and not little children looking to prop up their groups to win brownie points to get that I pissed off the other side Patch....

Seriously, and we wonder why so many see American's with an IQ not any greater than 0..

Get ready for round#2 of the Obama two step. This is what "Cap and Trade" is all about. Trying to tax and control all energy in America. This is where Obama, Gore, and Goldman -Sachs stand to make billions off the tax payers backs, and take us firmly into Socialism. Don't forget, 32,000 scientists have debunked global warming/climate change as being caused by mankind. Global warming fanatics such as Al "The Internet" Gore have tried to tie climate change to the amounts of carbon dioxide in the air. Most scientists believe earths warming and cooling to be cyclical and based on Solar activity instead of carbon dioxide. Still, the liberals rely on their usual scare tactics to push their flawed policies through congress and past the people.

Dennis-956826,

Ummm that is already a fact son :O Energy is taxed and controlled.. What the hell are you getting at lol...

And on Socialism son.. Your government is a Socialist system.. That is why you pay taxes kid.. Your Government is socialist while your economy is Capitalist.. they run back to back...

Are you people seriously this stupid? Hell insurance is a socialist system... it's the dumping money into a system by a pool of people who buy or pay into the system to support the system...But things like health insurance is for profit off the back of a social system.. It's like a giant ponzi scheme... And you wonder why people get denied life saving operations... its about profit....

Before you people talk about socialism I suggest you get out a dictionary and really understand what it is that you are talking about... So unless you get off yer lazy butt and fix my streets pot holes I suggest you rethink your tear jerking on socialism lol

That is why the health reform is such a farce.. because health insurance is a socialist program irregardless if its public, private, or government... Except the Gov won't deny health care to ensure profits..

In fact New Zealand has one of the best Health Care systems in the world because they have the Public, private, and Government options... Competition is great and keeps costs down and ensures no denial of health care,..

National security:

When fossile fuels run dry where does your national security sit Orbust?

Your excuse not to invest in something that you will have no choice to invest in when fossil fuels run dry is by far not a very intelligent response...

What I am telling you is that you can't suck on the oil pipe forever... And your reliance on foreign powers for your energy has everything to do with your national security.. It's a common sense duh....

When you have to power to supply your self, that = independence... and far less foreign influence or leverage over your country, people, economy, and security..

When you have to power to supply= When you have "the" power to supply... Sorry typo fix :)

Orbust natural gas is a fossil fuel... It is also limited... However, yes it is a good alternative to oil but again it's a dead end fuel source...

Ron Paul actually supports the good idea to use fossil fuel to as a stepping stone to renewable fuels... Mostly because R&D is still very young in the field to where a viable standard or set multiple options is made standard to support a new infrastructure...However, this does not change the fact that you will eventually be forced to either fight for scarce resources and eventually collapse or invest in an endless resource...

Wow... where to start... sniprklr... I'll start with you, kid. No, I don't think everyone is seriously stupid... just you :o)

You said: You also need to look at the fact that food and crop production in the US has taken nearly a 20% drop since the 1950's due to droughts and mild winters...

I say: You surely know that the government pays farmers NOT to grow food because of the abundance that we are able to grow ruins the food market... hmmm, apparently you did not know that.

You said: Oil will only be around for so long.

I say: Yes, that is true. My wife's uncle is a vice president with Phillips petroleum. Before the largest oil deposit in the world was discovered in the NW United States, He told me at present consumption rate, there is enough oil in the United states in KNOWN deposits to last America 600 years. I do not think we will run out tomorrow so your scare tactic on military sustainability is a crock. You libs like to try to scare the uninformed, don't you?

Snip,

New "green energy" along with Cap and Trade are being thought of as the new driving energy force in the economy = the next great international bubble, son. I can only guess you have no idea who you are dealing with when you stop thinking about or adding holding corporations like Goldman Sachs into your equation. Further, unless you make your own everything, you will never be independent.

You like to think of yourself as an adult. We'd all think of you as such if you could imagine there were more opinions and better opinions out there than just your own.

I am all for being free of oil dependence, Snip. In fact, I'm so for it, I've gone back to college to complete my degree in Electrical Engineering just to work in the field, whatever I may be able to add to it, regardless of the reasons. And you, Snip, with your holier then thou attitude, are starting to bore me. Don't take it personally, Snipper, as the majority of the people you have insulted here will do their best not to take your insults seriously.

Now, unless you can start a grand round of mathmatical equations, I guess you too are talking in general terms of knowledge, so lighten up.

Dennis-956826,

First off.. Yes you are correct on the Farming,... However my figure includes your argument... It's just a simple statistic based on crop losses... I suggest you learn the difference..

On the Oil deposite and how long it will last really had zero to do with my argument... and really is not an excuse... Basically you are trying to protect your own interests here... And my statements never suggest that we would run out of oil "tomorrow" or anytime soon...Nice try on the spin..

What i did tell you is that it won't last forever... and there is no reason to keep using fossil fuels other than for you to protect your "Job"... 600 years to 2 million years makes little difference... There is no reason not to advance technologically...

And I never tried to scare anyone son.. I clearly stated facts.. If that is scary to you I am sorry lol..

sygh,

I never stated I was in support of Cap and Control.. I am telling you that is already the case.. That is not something you are going to get to avoid no matter where your energy comes from...

I just simply see no reason not to invest in renewable fuels... This discussion was meant to be apart from the politics and about the concept in general... But others chose to bring politics into it.... All I am agreeing with is that we should go green.... Invest in renewable fuels... There really is no excuse not to...

Now if you want to argue the process in how it is put into play I can agree that there is a wrong and right way of doing it....

Dennis,

Why are we not taping into that oil right NOW? Or even planning on it at all? Cost effective?

SniprKlr said:

You also need to look at the fact that food and crop production in the US has taken nearly a 20% drop since the 1950's due to droughts and mild winters...

That's simply not true. In 1950, US corn production totalled 2.7 billion bushels. In 2008, US corn production totalled 12.6 billion bushels. That's nearly 5 times greater prouduction, not a 20% decline as you claimed. The numbers are similar for other crops. Biotechnology, agrichemicals, and greater mechanization have allowed fewer farmers to produce much more food and fiber.

Then SniprKlr said:

The only people against going Green are idiots or people with other agendas... Yes the government is using the Global Climate excuse to go forward.. Lame yes... But hardly why we should... There is NO VALID REASON NOT TO GO GREEN!

Of course there are reasons not to go Green. The most obvious reason is economic. Green typically costs more. The next most important reason is that going Green is often harmful to the environment, for example, growing corn for fuel is drawing down the water table and depleting the soil of our breadbasket.

JohnCarter-428979

NO SUCH WORD as irregardless.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/irregardless

also known fact: Noob is set to become the newest member in the English dictionary.. Cheers!

So before you go about correcting people you should have at the very least checked your dictionary..

And yes current forms of renewable fuels are expensive.. Just like any new tech... That is part of the reason why it's still very young in it's development... And I also never said you have to change or switch today, tomorrow, next week or even in the next 300 years...I am telling you that you will eventually have to... And yes it will eventually effect all the above...

snipklr... No, I am not seriously stupid... but apparently you are, you do not know the definition of Socialism.

You said: Are you people seriously this stupid? Hell insurance is a socialist system.

I say: No, It's not... not yet anyway

Socialism:

• Main Entry:so·cial·ism
• Pronunciation: \ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm\
• Function: noun
• Date: 1837

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Currently we have private health insurers. Insurance is currently privately owned, not publicly or government owned. So far you have not said anything that is correct.

Unfortunately, I would love to dumb down and argue with you, but it is time to go to bed. Work on getting your facts straight and give me a better argument next time... good night all.

I was about to leave and read your post

No, we are not tapping into that oil... or off the coast of the USA, or ANWAR. Congress voted "NO" on any new drilling anywhere within US territory. The oil in NW USA is more expensive to get than say a gusher, but it is not cost prohibitive at current or somewhat lower oil prices.

I do stand corrected on what exactly constitutes socialism as my apparent view of it differs in that I believe socialism can be a form of government in the terms of being supported by a social group.. Hence a pool of people supporting a system (we the people).... In the actual definition Socialism is the type of economy.. In this case yes you are correct.... I guess my thinking of it is as a Socialized system..:O :P

And your government does have some control over said means of production.. Hence taxes, laws, permits ectra.. you also don't technically own your land should you have it.. the government can take it for what ever reasons they want...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

So you can still argue that your government is somewhat socialist... Especially in civil construction... Building of schools and fixing roads is all controlled by the state... Even if the work is contracted out to private construction companies...

Thanks Dennis

Wasn't sure about the NW oil. Don't they call it crude 2 or something along those lines?

I understand both sides yet don't see the harm in clean energy. Innovation has brought us a long way and don't see why it should stop. I am sure our dependence on oil will continue no matter the advancements we make.

I bet there where those that didn't want color tv's and would prefer to keep their black and whites.

Why when discussing change does it have to be either or?

We need Reps and Dems not one or the other. I agree with both and disagree with both. But when combined we can achieve what no other country can!! :)-

Oh how I love the ignorance.

This is nothing new, this has been in the threat assessments for decades now.

global warming means that some areas will run out of water - those people will be looking for water elsewhere, i.e. in some other country so either as refugees or an invading army global warming is already changing things, increasing the threat that countries in the midle latitudes like us will be hit with people from the tropics.

Yes global warming is real, yes it is a threat; there are thousands of changes that we will have to face and most will not be fun; at some point we will prove our humanity / inhumanity when first thousands then millions of people die from heat / lack of water / lack of food grown with water / lack of water for sanitation; etc.

This is not a new thing, people who claim it is just haven't been paying attention as the CIA, etc. have been saying this for decades; only a fool could have missed it

But hey... You have to be amazed at the length of the argument we had to go through when you tell someone that it will eventually have to happen lol... A total brawl and yet the basic answer is yes, eventually you will have to go green... Which was the entire point... And yes it is currently expensive but we all know what happens to costs of technology as it improves... It goes down.... And corn is not a very viable source compared to algae for example... I suggest you watch the progression of bio-fuel technology :)...

I must also state that I am not disagreeing with the fact that it is not currently economical... I am saying you need to invest in it... Not go green tomorrow like many of you are trying to suggest.. It is prudent that we continue it's development.. And having refined and perfected it when the time comes is probably the best solution we can have for the future..

instead of people taking the basic argument they turned it into a pissing match.. I didn't start this pissing match.... In fact I was quite polite and direct to begin with... Ignored so people can piss and moan about other things.. Like someone's spelling or socialism or Obama ectra.. LOL seriously...

Dennis even you will agree that the fossil fuel will die off and there will be a need for renewable alternatives... And there really is no reason not to do so as soon as it is viable and economical in both production and distribution...

More doom and gloom from the dems, lol. The data comes from the weather "experts" who cant tell us what next weeks weather will be and we are supposed to be stupid enough to think they can accurately predict it 30-50 years from now? Why didnt they add Al, THE ASS, GORE AS A CONTRIBUTOR TO THIS ARTICLE. His wealth has risen 5000% since he got on the green kick, the sky is fallling , the sky is falling. Yup hes non-profit, save the world honest guy all right.His own house uses the equilivent to the electric of 28 homes. The people got wise and are standing up against the healthscam bill, so right on pattern the dems start sneaking another agenda at us. Sow confusion and chaos , to take a page out of the dems tactic book, STAY ON MESSAGE, NO TO YOUR HEALTHSCAM BILL, cap and trade is all but dead in the water, dont be fooled by the fake crap on climate , stay on the fight against the healthscam, and remember, it isnt 47 million people who "NEED" ins right now, as 24 million are young and choose not to buy ins yet! So its 23 million and that can be debated, but thats the liberals for ya, gotta add a fictional 24 million people in their figures! Oh and how many of that 23 million are illegals or the result of the liberals not enforcing our immigration laws and promising to make them legal? Add to this the fact that they spout we have a choice? NOPE, tell that crud to the 24 million who choose not to buy ins now, but WILL BE FORCED TO BUY IT in their scam!!!Choice? eh morons.

One thing governements are afraid to talk about is population control. I will vote for any one who is for it !

There are way too many human beings and our planet has reach its capacity to provide for all. It is as simple as that. The more human being, the more environmental destruction and pollution. If the right wingers do not undersand that, they are truely mentally chalenged.

Deedee - nonsense about population control. That would be eugenics, which is evil. I pray that I or any of my future family is not a victim of govt mandated "control".

I saw this story on Fox, then NYT, both of which don't do the Newsvine. I found it from MSNBC.

The tone of the the comments from MSNBC's stories changed dramatically from when they hosted the comments, to when they went to newsvine.

To get to the point about "global warming". Cold here, hot there. Focus, people, focus.

Warming world = melting ice = the "poor arctic" = rising sea level

At the beach cabin, how come I still have to walk the same distance to the water? The same distance my grandfather did?

Does John Kerry not understand that I am fully aware the Florida Keys are still above water, and have been for the last 300 years?

Does John Kerry not understand that as a voting citizen, I have observed the autumn leaves peak around mid-october, and this has not changed in my lifetime, nor my great-grandfathers?

Thankfully, hindsight is 20/20. For every day the sky does not fall, more and more people will start asking, "Where is the rise in sea level from all the gigatons of melting ice? Why can't I see it?"

Snipr, why don't you just go away, you have to be an Obama shill.

You lost all credibility on your very first post, when you said farm production was off 20% since 1955. Facts are that farm production has almost doubled since 1955 and would be much hugher if he government didn't have so much land idled .

You have made many comments on the intelligence or lack there of, mosy of your comments lack provable truth amd many are just Obama propaganda

Well, the idiots that didn't believe Gore, or scientists that have much more insight into global warning than any of you armchair scientists weren't enough. Now you are faulting the Pentagon? I bet you all use gallons of weed killer on your lawns then let your kids and grandkids play on it.

Yes, Chicken Little, the sky is falling! Hurry get into the barn. Obviously, climate change has been around since the world began. What's different now? The politicians want to use it as a pedestal to impose more taxes.

Kerry's mission is a fool's errand. No one in this world can totally prepare for unknown natural disasters. It should not be the US's responsibility to save their butts either. We can't save ourselves right now, why should we save them?

SniprKlr "ROY WILSON-336103,

Your really didn't listen... Fossil fuels will not be around forever...And lets talk economics.. What happens to the price of a resource once it becomes dangerously scarce?"

Very simple. As the price of fossil fuels goes up, at some time in the future the cost structure will match that of "alternative" energy, at which time market economics will force a gradual switch to these other sources.

What "cap & trade" does is artificially increase the cost of fossil fuels IN THIS COUNTRY ONLY, so that we will be even less competitive with China, India, etc.

They will reap the reward, and we will pay the price.

Fact - we have people born in this country, that have served this country that don't have a home, that are looking for meals every day, water or a place to sleep. We don't have the money to take care of our own but we can throw millions and millions to other countries?

We have gangs - cripps and bloods to just name a few that are constantly gunning innocent Americans down with car jacking and armed robberies. Our brothers and sisters are terrified to go out after dark in their own country America and we worry about terrorism in other countries.

We have this ALL WRONG, we need to take care of America and Americans first. When no man, woman or child goes without a meal or a safe place the sleep at night we can extend that helping hand to others. We you knock out the terrorizing gangs in our own country, we can lend assistance elsewhere.

I really hope we wake up soon but it may already be too late.

Here we go again! Do you get the feeling that the New York Times (official Obama newsletter) is priming us so they can force feed us the Cap & Trade crap? How about a few more trillion in added taxes on top of stimulus, healthcare reform and the other crap desires of Obama and this liberal congress? Let's spend money like it is water and with no fiscal responsibility whatsoever. Get these idiots like Kerry and many others out of office! Is there any way we can get Congress to take recess 11 out of 12 months of each year? We can't afford it when they are "working".

Floods and draughts have occured throughout history and long before Ozone Al's get rich quick "Cap and Trade" scheme reared its ugly head.While evil folks may use these events to plot evil deeds,trying to use bogus AlGore "science" to impose the New World Order is simply wrong.

And they want to say the Republicans are yelling "the sky if falling?" This liberal garbage is literally saying "the sky is falling." Steelman. You are right. First thing I thought was "here comes Cap and Trade!"

Can't wait to see Pappy-O peddling more fear mongering to get another "tax-us-to-death" bill passed.

I guess this guy WANTS to be one-termer. He's sure as heII trying hard at it.

We all need to remember that it was experts like John Kerry and Al Gore who said that if we didn't do something about the climate, in 10 years there would be dire consequences. I have to agree with them! We now have Barack Obama as President thanks to the nuts that believe fools like Kerry and Gore.

But seriously, there are people who are ashamed that America is the Greatest nation in the world. They feel that we need to be taken down a few knotches as we are too young as a nation and havn't been around long enough to deserve our place in power.

There are also people who post on this forum who feel (not think) they are superior to others because they stay up late pontificating through a drug induced haze. To you, this is directed. On MTV they show some poor polar bears adrift on a small chunk of ice, as if they are going to have to swim for days to get to more ice. They left to get away from the camera person who was standing on firm ice a short distance away from the bears. That sequence was shot in the summer also. The fact of the matter is that the polar bear is not in danger of extinction. Canada just last year allowed an increase in the quota of bears to be killed during the hunting season, due to the fact that they have been reproducing quite well and becoming a nuisance.

While the ice was melting on the west end of Greenland it was building on the east end. In spite of what the alarmists would have you believe there has been no net loss of ice in the polar caps. Everything you see is the result of seasonal change, they just think we are too ignorant to find out the difference.

As far as the current climate change argument goes, there is an old saying that needs to be restated. FOLLOW THE MONEY! Those who are ranting the loudest are the same people who have the most to gain financially from climate change. You can buy any result you want in a "scientific study", you just have to find someone who wants your money. P.T. Barnum said it best, "There is a sucker born every minute". And the biggest suckers out there are the ones who believe the government when they say we have a crisis.

Global warming is the largest crock our government is trying to push down our throats. Even the EPA report, that was purposely held back per Obama, showed Global cooling has been going on since year 2002.

Just another bold lie from the Obama administration to gain power and control over us Americans.

Climate Bill: NO
Medical Bill: NO
Immigration Bill: NO (because I believe Obama will grant amnesty for all illegals)

I think the Earth worshippers and our media believe if you repeat something enough times it becomes true.Sorry guys.While there is much truth in this article regarding climate catastrophies the big lie is the source of these events.Floods,earthquakes,storms and draughts have occurred thoughout history,long before the "evil" SUV was invented.I have never owned and rarely driven an SUV, but I don't want Uncle Harry or Aunt Nancy or Ozone Al dictating what sits in my driveway (which is usually 4 cyl. powered and capable of 30 mpg highway).

Climate change is a hoax. Lets concentrate on fixing the economy, which is broken. One thing at a time global warming crowd.

Global warming, climate change or what have you it is the same thing. The idea is to scare the US into the New World Odor.

90% of the glaciers on the planet are growing.

Arctic sea ice running well above 2007

Study: No Increase in Flooding Due to Global Warming

Australian Sun Herald: 'A consensus is growing: German Scientists: Humans aren't heating the planet

These are some of the articles I have found at www.climatedepot.com We will lose an enormous amount of our prosperity and future if we let these alarmists sign America over to the New World Odor.

riggznit said:

Thanks Dennis

Wasn't sure about the NW oil. Don't they call it crude 2 or something along those lines?

I understand both sides yet don't see the harm in clean energy. Innovation has brought us a long way and don't see why it should stop. I am sure our dependence on oil will continue no matter the advancements we make.

Dennis says: You're welcome :) I think you are right on what the type of oil is called, but I am not sure.

Absolutely, there is no harm in going green. I even agree with snipklr, that someday we will run out of oil. Here is my argument in a nutshell. With at least 600 years remaining in our oil supply at present consumption rate, we have a little time to do the transformation correctly. Technology is not yet ready to make the switch. Batteries are not yet capable of holding and delivering a long term, continuous, dependable source of collection. Our electrical generation grid is not there yet to supply the demand for electricity to cover the demand for new cars. But, the technology will be here someday. Most scientists say in 20-50 years. We need to build 20-30 nuclear powerplants as soon as possible. Here is the problem with "Cap and Trade". Cap and Trade (C&T) is a user tax. This user tax is added to ALL producers of ALL products and passed on to the customer... the tax payer. Everything will cost more, food, utilities, clothing, everything we buy, and or use. The government is pushing for thermostats that can be controled from a central location. You are given carbon credits that you are not to exceed. If those carbon credits are exceeded, you will have to pay for additional carbon credits. The whole idea of C&T is a punishment tax. We give up another freedom to let the government tell us what kind of car to drive. How many miles we can drive. On what temperature we must keep our thermostat set. Anything that has anything to do with energy will be regulated and taxed by the goverment. If this does not scare the hell out of everyone here, it should. This policy, even more than Obama care, will drive the stake of Socialism right through the heart of America. Do you actually think that giving the government all this new sorce of tax money will make them usher in green faster? LOL. Do you think they would actually want to give up their new sorce of revenue? C&T is BAD, BAD, BAD for our economy, for our way of life, for our future. Tell your Congressmen and Senators, VOTE NO on CAP AND TRADE!!!

This is really about personal greed and fear of educating/adapting oneself to change, and not much more.

The United States is not a world leader in health care. Those that are can't figure out why we put up with what we have, but see that here everyone is greedy, and no one wants to learn about or actually seriously contemplate any kind of change. They see us as saying THE STATUS QUO IS FINE, and they are right. We have been saying it since Truman.

The United States is not the world leader in education. That is obvious.

The United States is not the world leader in energy, except in cost of usage per capita. The old business of China and India behaving just as badly as we are is just a diversion. Actually, they are way ahead of us in alternative energy technology and renewable energy research and development. Unlike us, they are using the fossil fuel energy to provide a foundation to grow this alternate economy.

The European and other industrialized nations are also way ahead of us. Germany is currently the world leader, running more and more entire towns off of renewable energy. And guess who their biggest industries in this area are? American companies, who could not get any interest here. The same is true of many other countries - they have our companies doing their transitions from Middle Eastern dependence to sovereign independence.

In my area, we took our own approaches also. Our health care costs have been reduced because we chose, as a consortium of medical providers, to implement electronic record keeping. Even the veterinarians have an identical network. It did decrease costly errors, fraud and waste, and unnecessary suits. It also increased quality of care, shortened hospital stays, and allowed more doctor-patient time.

We have chosen to advance our reliance on renewable energy, and started when gas went to over $4.00 a gallon since we are not naive enough to believe it won't happen again. Even the large power corporation which covers a good part of our state has joined in. We have three high schools just in our district with entire magnet programs in renewable energy construction and engineering. The local state university has geared up to take these graduates and continue their education, while allowing some of them to start small businesses in these areas with help from RSVP as mentors, and loans from the Small Business Administration.

With the support of the municipalities around, we are using these students in hands-on learning opportunities where they design and build totally green homes on empty lots, and retrofit abandoned or foreclosed homes to green standards before resale, and the profits from the sales go back to the cities so they can fund even more similar projects. This gets rid of a lot of their blight, provides more affordable housing, and increases their tax base, which in turn helps the schools. We are lowering the energy bills of thousands of senior citizens by retrofitting their homes, and will be offering the same to other low-income families. The decrease in their bills will more than offset any increase in taxes by any forthcoming legislation, so they will remain unaffected.

The only opposition we encounter is predictably from those who again see the STATUS QUO AS A-OKAY.

I find it interesting that these seem to be the same people who moan and groan about what the deficit is going to do to their children and grandchildren. I don't believe they give one whit about those who will be here when they are gone, as long as their present way of life isn't changed one iota. If they did, they would be just as concerned about their descendants' health care, their education and what kind of energy-driven life they will have, instead of just using taxes as an excuse for their lavish, fossil fuel driven houses, and their SUVs.

I try to be very careful about using the word hypocrisy, it can be applied to nearly everyone at some point or another. But, some situations and people just bleed hypocrisy out of every pore of their body.

You see, If this news piece was one concerning the build up of some foreign troops on a border. Or if it were a piece that was talking about threats from known terrorist who have already killed thousands of Innocent people. Or, if it were even a comment from some who believe that we are moving down a extremely slippery slope toward socialism. If it were any of those sort of things that were being written about. We would have an entire crowed of Progressive/Liberal/Radicals who would be making such comments as "Here we go with all of the Scare tactics"... and "here goes the Right wing nut jobs trying to scare us all into another war"... We have all read all of those comments before.

So... what is the difference here? Here we are listening to one radical group tell the other group they are wrong and the other is right. All the Liberals point at Scientist who disagree about many of the points and some who do believe the whole global warming matter... and then others who think Global warming is nothing more then a natural change in our weather pattern. We are no more certain then them and most really have no clue to begin with because of lack of solid information that cannot be disputed or seen in a different light. We listen to THEIR scare tactics about how we are all going to have to swim to work next year... that the whole world is getting hotter. I read from them that we are going to starve to death in five years when we cannot even sell all of the grain and other grown food that we raise every year... we make fuel out of it instead. THEN I hear about how cities are having the coolest Summers on record. I watch snow pile up like sand dunes in the winter... I see ice storms and drops in temperature like never before... And here is the kicker... when its snowing tens of feet or when its cool in August... their position is "it is part of the warming cycle"... On a planet that we know for a fact has gone through change after change after change after change some lasting 100 years... some lasting 1000 some 10,000 or 1,000,000 years.... only thing is 100% true.... change does happen. In fact... the only content that can be relied on upon the planet Earth is... there will be Change.

So, when people who do not believe that this subject is all true. Those who feel this whole matter may be being blown out of proportion in order to push agenda's... those people are jumped all over. Same holds true about those who are protesting the health care "side shows"... we hear about how the interruption's are all just "set ups" we hear about how its just Mobs of protesters who only want to disrupt the system.... AND....???.... for God sake... You Liberals have been doing the same crap for 75 years. In fact... it is how you have ALWAYS done things. You have groups like PETA... The PINK warriors, all the animal rights and Eco groups, you have ACORN (a bunch of criminals for certain)... all the groups on College campuses who make noise so loud speakers who have been invited to universities cannot speak. I could go on for an hour about Liberal disruptive activities... Why...?... IT IS THE LIBERAL WAY TO BE DISRUPTIVE.... but now that some of that behavior is being tossed back into your faces buy people who both know and believe these issues have not been thought through properly... the moment that someone tosses that same crap right back at you... you guys and your President go crying back to the Liberal Press Minions about "The Mob Crowds" and how these people are "All Organized"... SO WHAT IF THEY ARE?..... SO ARE YOU WHEN YOU PROTEST HYPOCRITES...!!!

I say this about those who are against legislation and policy that is hurting or even destroying this Nation. I say this to those who are doing it while they are organized... "ITS ABOUT TIME"... And... I say this to those who are hypocritical enough to go whining to the media about it... "GET USED TO IT"... You have made a huge error in thinking the majority of this nation is like you and thinks the way you do. You now believe that because of winning the first election that you have managed to win for years, and only won it by less the 10%... you believe you have now created a MANDATE. And that we are all to follow every cause and belief that the Liberal/Progressive agenda is made up of. You have done what your belief system always does. You go running with it without even thinking. Telling everyone in your way to go to hell and burn. Well... we now see your motivations and are coming against you. We will not be stopped by your incessant whining about your opponents tactics. Reminds me of some of these activist kids I watched on a show about Japanese whalers. They go throwing chemicals and trying to damage and strand fishing vessels in the middle of the ocean... and then cry foul when the other guys fight back and do it better then you. You, like they have underestimated your opponents. Trust me... I love whales... I love Dolphins (The real ones and the Football ones) but if you go tossing acid and trying to tangle up Propellers of some fisherman's ship... they are not going to act nice about it. These kids Gasp that they actually are fighting back... reminds me of how you act when those against you do the same. No offence... but really, what did you expect?

Dennis and others.. I may have gotten some facts "wrong" due to poor sources but I do believe the underlining fact I have given you is not unavoidable or false.. And thank you Dennis for actually seeing my point that I was making....

As for the credibility and go away crap.. People make mistakes and that doesn't mean they are incorrect... Just as if I could claim someone has no credibility because they thought "irregardless" wasn't a word and in fact it is... People make mistakes....

And yes there are aspects of our government that make it pretty close to socialism... But I will agree with Dennis that it is not entirely the case... I an showing a bit of humility here in that I do admit to mistakes...

However, I am correct that you will eventually have to go green.. And when that time comes it will effect you economy, security and many other things.. That is not a false statement.. Your only point is the time frame for when that is viable... And I had without a doubt agreed that it is not currently a viable option yet because the technology is not there yet... And Dennis is correct.. The infrastructure is not there to handle it...

But the process to going green is to continue to invest in it... And yes it will be taxed, regulated ectra... There really is nothing you can do about that...

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!!!!!

From the Article:

The Pentagon and the State Department have studied issues arising from dependence on foreign sources of energy for years but are only now considering the effects of global warming in their long-term planning documents.

Global Warming---B.S. wow--They have the Pentagon shilling for them !!! There is no Global Warming !! There is no major ocean elevation changes.--The oceans have risen only about 12-14 inches in the last 110 years.

Go Read the Draft Report for March 2009 from the EPA, if the Liberal Global Warming Bureaucrats have already revised to fit their Vision of the World.

The Conclusions were: The earth has been cooling the last 10 or more years. The climate is directly tied to the Sunspot cycles of the Sun. The Ocean PDO (ocean cycles) drive local areas' temperatures. There is no major melting of Greenland. there is an executive summary that lists most of the conclusions. They back up their report with Data and even bad-mouth the IPCC community.

I noticed this article again talks about Arctic melting---except they forget to remind everyone it refreezes every WINTER ! and only partial melts during the summer.

Hey ! did you notice some of the people in Power are hold overs from the Clinton administration. Can we say Al Gore people leftovers from when Al Gore was calling the Shots in the Administration science community.

Hey America !!! Wake Up ! This is just Government Propaganda !

Remember the Third Great Lie ! "Hi, I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you."

Older post from Sniprkir 1.23 - where he states that "it doesn't really hurt to go green."

Is Sniprkir a contractor? Do you really know what the costs are associated with going green? Do you know how much more is added to the cost of a building when seeking out a gold or platinum LEED certification? Platinums are almost impossible to reach within any budgetary constraint. Gold is just under that level.

The University of New Orleans was doing a study that involved our company. The project was a "green" home. The first task was to price out and establish a budget on a 2000 square foot split level home with no frills. We arrived at a price just over $156,000. The next task was to add green elements that included insulated glass, increased insulation, solar panels, an inground heat pump for heating and cooling. The floor plan was altered so that it included window heat wells in the ceiling and a coolant circulation system. After all these costs were calculated and added to the home, the cost doubled. Now the price was just over $320,000.

The last task was to implement platinum procedures that included using local materials, recycled materials and low carbon elimination of the construction debris and waste. Come to find out that recycled lumber was double the price of new lumber. Local supply was very difficult to find but we did it and recognized that those costs doubled as well.

By the time the final price tag came in, a 2000 square foot home with a normal cost of $156,000 blossumed to $410,000 by using "GREEN" methods.

I say GREEN is economically unfeasable. There is serious pain to going green and it hits us right in the pocketbook. So if you believe politicans that want to go green you need to do one thing first - follow the money.

I'll tell you exactly where the debate on global warming is:

A gallon of gasoline weighs about 6 pounds. When it has been burned in a car or truck it produces about 20-22 pounds of carbon, depending on the efficiency of combustion of the engine.

People who made an A in high school chemistry understand that to be true. People who a B in high school chemistry could be convinced of that if it were carefully explained. People who made a C in high school chemistry, would eventually agree with the statement after it had been explained several times, but would still harbor reservations. Everyone else would say that was nonsense, no matter how it was explained to them because in their mind there is absolutely and certainly no way that 6 lbs of gasoline could produce 20-22 lbs of carbon polution (C, CO, & CO2).

This whole issue is about education and understanding. People react strongly and negatively to things they do not understand. It is so much easier for them to do into denial than to face the facts.

Brianb

That's very interesting, and I suspect must have involved some other things. We just finished a house from the slab up, on an empty lot donated by the city. With the consortium of municipalities, universities, high school "green" magnet programs, and private contractors and our major utility company, we just finished a green and universal design house (fully accessible) that has 2000 square feet and a partial second story. It got a silver L.E.E.D. rating and sold easily for $210,000, just $14,000 dollars more than the average appraised value of the other houses in that neighborhood.

Using the same consortium, we are taking other empty lots, and can turn out about one house per year at present, but we can also take abandoned homes, and refurbish about four a year, totally green, sell those, and the trust the city is holding is still making money (they get the assessed value of the land at the start of the build or retro), and of course they will now be collecting property taxes and other things from an inhabited house once the houses are sold. It also helps the value f the other houses in the neighborhood when this blight is eliminated.

We are one of the areas where house values went down almost 75% when the housing bubble burst, so this is how we, as a community of both public and private interests decided to bail ourselves out.

And oh, by the way, the city wants to start using tbe many abandoned store fronts from small businesses that have failed to let a minimum of four new green oriented businesses open there, so private citizens can get their houses done and watch their meters running backwards too. We have one done already as a demo.

We will be ecstatic if we can get silver LE.E.E.D. ratings on everything, as is the head of the local L.E.E.D. certification board. We are including L.E.E.D. certification in the high school programs, so kids are coming out already certified and knowing they have a job waiting, and the university and community college are doing the same. We also have retraining programs run by non-profits who were already handling community education, and they are now working with our large unemployed population to turn out qualified green workers.

I don't know how you organized it in New Orleans, but I can say everything doesn't have to be platinum. Upgrades can be made later if that is what someone really wants. But the point is, the base is in place, and the city is now looking at making this stuff part of the construction permitting process, so the green workers and businesses will be in even more demand.

I guess all I can say is that with a grassroots level that even includes green summer camps for eight-graders to get them interested in continuing to careers in this area, it can be done, and so far, everybody is making money.

"Do you really know what the costs are associated with going green?"

When Fossil fuels run out I would suspect this little question wouldn't really make much of a difference ;) ... Imagine the Costs involved of having to do it after fossil fuels run out... That is why you invest in R&D and Plan for the future... According to some here you have 600 years to make that cost effective and to improve or pre-construct the infrastructure..

What your estimating is what it costs today and not when it will be needed... And again as the technology improves the costs go down... And yes it will cost you a lot.. But it will cost you a hell of a lot more if you don't have a viable alternative or renewable fuel when fossil fuel runs dry...

I have no idea why you would even argue that point... It's like what exactly is your plan when Fossil Fuels run out that wouldn't cost you? Back to burning candles?

Brianb-999431,

You aren't going to have a choice in the matter when Fossil fuels are gone... Costs are irrelevant... It's going to be paid one way or another... Just be happy you won't have to actually seriously deal with it in your life time....

We have a realistic alternative to fossil fuels, its called nuclear energy. Quit wasting money on pipe dreams such as solar and wind. Even if they were 100% efficient they wouldn't have nearly the energy density of coal not talking nuclear. It would take an area at least the size of Wisconsin to produce all the energy the US needs.

I don't think they are looking to replace it with just solar or wind Living... Alternative fuels based on algae for example are very close to producing the same power levels.....

I think this can settle up both the national security issues AND the economic issues, while shutting up both the greenies and the do nothings- DRILL HERE,DRILL NOW, AND IMPROVE THE TECHNOLOGY AS QUICKLY AS FEASIBALE TO GET TO TOTAL CLEAN SUSTAINABILITY SOONEST. Now, can we all just go on to something else? I just fixed the world, it's your turn to fix healthcare. LOL

Neale....yes that is the solution....We have the technology to produce oil cleanly, but the left will not accept oil under any circumstances. I agree that other fuel technology should be studied, improved and used as soon as it becomes competitive.....but not crammed down our throats before then. Hope and change means we hope it will work someday and change whether it works or not.

J.A. that is so true. If only the rest of the people would look for the simple, obvious solutions instead of insisting on tons of regulations and taxes that do nothing but cost money and jobs.

Neale

A lot of communities across this country are doing just that. We have a communications network set up so we can give each other suggestions and learn from each other because we have all decided we are going to move into the 21st century our own way, whether the earth is experiencing climate change or not. We are communities hit hard by the recession and we are all about saving money.

We just finished a house from the slab up, on an empty lot donated by the city. With a consortium of municipalities, universities, high school "green" magnet programs, and private contractors and our major utility company, we just finished a green and universal design house (fully accessible) that has 2000 square feet and a partial second story. It got a silver L.E.E.D. rating and sold easily for $210,000, just $14,000 dollars more than the average appraised value of the other houses in that neighborhood.

Using the same consortium, we are taking other empty lots, and can turn out about one house per year at present, but we can also take abandoned homes, and refurbish about four a year, totally green, sell those, and the trust the city is holding is still making money (they get the assessed value of the land at the start of the build or retro), and of course they will now be collecting property taxes and other things from an inhabited house once the houses are sold. It also helps the value of the other houses in the neighborhood when this blight is eliminated.

We are one of the areas where house values went down almost 75% when the housing bubble burst, so this is how we, as a community of both public and private interests decided to bail ourselves out. And we lost a ton of small businesses, so small stores and manufacturing buildings are standing empty all over the place.

The city wants to start using the many abandoned store fronts from small businesses that have failed to let a minimum of four new green oriented businesses open there each year, so private citizens can get their houses done and watch their meters running backwards too. We have one done already as a demo.

We will be ecstatic if we can get silver LE.E.E.D. ratings on everything, as is the head of the local L.E.E.D. certification board. We are including L.E.E.D. certification in the high school programs, so kids are coming out already certified and knowing they have a job waiting, and the university and community college are doing the same. We also have retraining programs run by non-profits who were already handling community education, and they are now working with our large unemployed population to turn out qualified green workers.

We are working with what we have, and yes, those of us who still have jobs and families are working some long days and weekends, but it is worth it as we see our devastated communities coming back together. It truly took an effort by a lot of people, and yes, we got a start with some stimulus money, but this community is going to be self-sufficient with nice green neighborhoods, new small businesses, and new jobs with trained workers who were previously unemployed.

We, and many other communities, are taking our country back, one community at a time. We are not interested in any large corporations moving in here to drill or anything else. We don't need them, and they will not make use any money in the long run. We are already seeing a demand for many other small businesses for abandoned retail spaces, to provide services for our workers, like lunch restaurants, dry cleaners, different kinds of repair shops, etc. We have one WalMart in town, but since there is nothing American in there, we are choosing to patronize our local green grocers, small pharmacies (many of whom are getting their drugs from Canada a lot cheaper), and our small grocers, inexpensive clothing stores, sporting goods places, etc.

Yes, it may cost a little more, but we want to support our own community and indirectly, our own country. We, and a lot of other communities, are going to take our country back our own way. The "simple and obvious" is very possible without regulations and taxes. It just requires us to organize ourselves to be the resilient creative, and innovative people our founding fathers were.

Rich...you are dead on. These hacks can never let it go. Any excuse to fly around on jets, talk on cell phones and bang away on lap-tops and go to meetings. Consolidate power and look out for themselves and to hell with the average man. I am sick and tired of these self proclaimed geniuses. Every institution has been super infiltrated with petty demagogues who all just want to help you. I have had it with these self righteousness SOB's who in the name of pity for the masses are depriving us of our liberty.

Rich in NY

I suspect that anything connected with "government" has a way of making you feel a "police state" is just around the corner. Seen any ragheads, commies, illegals, or mean old socialists lately? Hell, we all know that Obama (being a secret Kenyan agent) is just about to push America into some sort of socialism that will enslave the children, and euthanize the elderly, and make America say allegiance to the USSR. Better sleep with your guns so you can repel the enemies of "good American values".

And whatever you do, don't forget to tune in God's gift to American journalism, Limbaugh, Beck, Andrew Coulter, and of course, FOx News. Any other information is surely communist propaganda. Can't be to careful, you know.

Don't forget youself,Awfton

Awfton, so I have finally found the one person who watches MSNBC and Oberdork and that new lady. Have you received anything new for Soros or Moveon?

Are you serious Rich? If the middle east becomes unstable we'd have to get involved if you want to continue you're god given american right to drive a smoke spewing gun-rack havin, 450 engine truck to go pick up 50lbs of groceries. Where do you think the fuel comes from? Not from my backyard and I'm guessing not yours. Have you ever wondered why our government seems so interested in the Middle-East? Now if by chance people started investing in more efficient ways of using and obtaining energy and implement those uses we might just possible then be able to mind our own issues and say "to hell" with the rest of the world. Not really what America is about but if that's what you seek, then start listening to the scientists, not the newscasters.

You know this left wing progressive crap is really getting old.

Well . apparantly the ice caps om Mars are receding as well. Amazing that our influence reaches across space too.

God damn SUV driving martians! They are killing the planet! Pretty soon mars will hardly have any atmosphere and the water will evaporate and the planet will turn a rust color and nothing will be able to live there and... oh...oh um sorry never mind.

doug - "if we would stop letting the environmentalists run our energy policy ... we could say good bye to middle eastern oil very easily." - actually, no. We don't have the oil. period. Oil goes into cars as gasoline, there is no god replacement fuel available which is why we need hybrids

"if we stopped reacting to alarmists and started managing our energy within our borders we could tell the rest of the world f*** you. and sell them our left over" - again, no; there is just not enough energy

If we did listen to environmentalists and did all the conservation that we could, required businesses to hire people living no more than 5 miles from their work and preferred bicycle parking to car parking; etc. we might get there. At the rate we consume energy, not gonna happen

You need to do some research, get some idea of what you are talking about rather than repeat silly talking points with no factual basis

Sean and Awfton? You mad because your welfare checks are spent already and its only the 9th? Socialism is written all over OBamas forehead and in his past speeches! What do you call making 24 million folks who dont want ins now, pay for it just to pay for the liberal freeloaders all in the name of we "need" this? Socialism, goofballs. Go check your mail , maybe you have another liberal social check in there that pays you to make assinine statements in here that you think will further your hero,s communistic, socialist agenda? NOT TODAY LITTLE BOYS! Oops, I best be careful they may call the Obma thugs from SEIU and Acorn on me! You and all your commie pals will get yours soon enough and it wont be liberally friendly lmao.

By the way all you liberal science "experts" in here that never paid attention enough in school, WHEN you did go, yes all you under priviledged background people, you know the ones too lazy to work for a living and want to suck off the rest of the people? You know all you welfare career rasied sheep? The world climate temp group, from scientists all over the world, just announced that the earths temp is exactly thesame as in 1979! I suppose countries like England, Germany, Russia, China, and Japan are all right wing nuts to you "experts"? HAHAHAAH simple moronic sheep is all you are! No to O-bumshealthscam, stay on message folks, screw the global warming/ cap and trade is all but dead in the water,, they want to distract us from the scam of socialisist healthcare. Screw them, stay focuused on the pressure on congress to let them know we dont want any more of their communistic, fascist bills period! These liberal wanna bes in here are just tryting to create cxhaos, albeit the fact that they are too ignorant and uneducated to do it is funny. Now watch how many of the freeloaders are all of a sudden college professors, doctors and lawyers hahahaah all b/s, their ignorance and inability to put up facts shows us all just who they are; Incompetent freeloaders and lazy asses, rejects of society lookin for a free ride!

Mirac: Being an Independent I want to ask you. Why when you speak to someone who is liberal as a welfare person, someone on the take from the government, or a druggie.or lazy. You do know that one heck of a lot of liberal people make a very good living don't you? You lose a lot of talking points when you rant on like you do. People just sort of tune you out.

Sean and Awfton? You mad because your welfare checks are spent already and its only the 9th?

Mirac. Now THAT'S funny. LOL!

Verno. You do know that one heck of a lot of liberal people make a very good living don't you?

Sure. All you need is a dozen illigitamate kids and a "spread the wealth" president. LOL!

The Colonel

You and a lot of others are the ones who will continue to be afraid of any change that will impact you. No matter your party, because there are plenty like you on both sides, you are a selfish and greedy lot. I know, I know, you are the first to complain about how the deficit will impact your descendants, but be honest, you don't really give a hoot about how their world might be after you are gone.

You think everyone should be deliriously happy with their health care because you are - THE STATUS QUO IS A-OKAY! That, of course, is in spite of the fact that we are way down on the list of world leaders in this area, and the real leaders are laughing at us.

You think everyone should be greatful and satisfied with our educational system - THE STATUS QUO IS A-OKAY! That, of course, is in spite of the fact that we are again way down and getting lower on the list of world leaders in this area.

You think everyone should be totally satisfied with our current energy situation because you can afford $5.00 a gallon gas - THE STATUS QUO IS A-OKAY! That, of course, is in spite of the fact that we are once again way down on the list of world leaders in this area, except in the area of cost per capita, and we are almost at the bottom of industrialized nations (yes, including China and India) in terms of renewable energy usage, and research and development. Those countries are using their non-renewables to transition to renewables. Some European countries will soon be almost entirely run on non-renewable energy and really have energy independence. Oh, and by the way, they are using our American companies, since those companies didn't think we were interested

But you go on believing the STATUS QUO IS A-OKAY. In our community, we are doing things differently, and we are improving our own health care systems, yielding lower costs and higher quality of care, improving our own educational systems, and definitely making it possible for all of us to enjoy much lower renewable energy costs.

I'm glad you can't tell where I am, because when things get out of hand elsewhere, we don't want all you STATUS QUO people moving here.

We depend on these countries --- Africa supplies almost all the rare-earth metals that makes computers and cell phones and televisions work. Think of it like Africa controls your cell phone.

good thing I don't own a cell phone lol

You know what JayBot when you are faced with death money no longer means that much

We are all faced with death!!!!!!!! Get a life

witchking: stop smoking the bong and get a life.....

wait whose got a bong.... hey dude what's up

"over the next 20 to 30 years, vulnerable regions, particularly sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and South and Southeast Asia, will face the prospect of food shortages, water crises and catastrophic flooding driven by climate change that could demand an American humanitarian relief or military response."

WTF America?!!

First these 3rd world countries are allowed to take our jobs due to lower wages and fewer (if any) environmental laws that are imposed on them, now there is a claim that the environment that they are helping to change could 'DEMAND' humanitarian relief from the unemployed US taxpayers?!!! I say Washington and the 3rd World can KISS MY ASS!!

Maybe if Washington were to impose HUGE taxes on imports, manufacturing jobs would come back to the USA where at least we try to be environmentally responsible. Or we just let the changing environment collapse those parts of the world and the jobs will come back anyway...

What a bunch of B.S!! Every time you turn around, the American taxpayers are required to bail out some podunk country that could give two @!$%#s about our well being and Washington just hands over the money. Can you tell I am really pissed here?! Enough is enough!!!

As these countries face food shortages, you don't think they're just going to sit there and starve, do you?

1) They will take food/money/property from those who have it. Think Somali pirates. And we do not have sufficient military power to stop even a handful of pirates in two relatively small areas.

2) They will work more and more cheaply to get food. That will cause more and more jobs to go overseas. It is happening now, but you haven't seen anything yet. Watch what happens when people stop working cheaply because they want to buy a car and how cheaply they will work to just eat.

3) Food shortages will drive up food prices. Everywhere. But they will go up the most in food-exporting countries such as the United States. This is because American capitalists will sell corn, wheat, milk, etc wherever they can get the best price. And if other parts of the world are starving, they will pay more just to get food. This aggravates #2 above as well. We have seen this on a small scale with corn diverted because of the ethanol scam and its effect on corn, rice, soybean, wheat, and meat prices.

4) Regional tensions quickly escalate into full-blown war when hundreds of thousands of people start moving across borders into countries like India, South Aftica, Egypt, Israel, etc. No country has a military capable of stopping a huge flood of refugees. If you think that 22 million is a lot of illegal latin refugees, you haven't even begun to see what would come across out southern border if corn prices were to double. Even if we placed all out military on our southern border (which is illegal) there would not be enough to shut off the flow.

5) In certain situations, there are subsistance economies that are very vulnerable to any disruption in food or water supplies. Israel, India, Pakistan, North Korea, and Iran all have both nuclear weapons (or are within a year of having them) and a marginal ability to feed their own people and animosities of long standing with their neighbors. The real issue with nuclear weapons is that no country with nuclear weapons can be allowed to fail because if they get backed that far into a corner, they will use them on their neighbors.

6) Disruptions in trade would be disastrous for the United States. We only have one export that would not be endangered if we took any action against countries disrupting trade --- weapons. And if we continue to sell arms in a world that is starving, sooner or later they will be turned on us. It's happened too many times to count already.

There are implications to what is happening and those implications can easily suck us in whether we want it or not. And, as for the anti-global warming crowd who also seem to be the same as the birthers and racists and haters on here, your children and especially your grandchildren will curse your name if they find out about your opinions expressed on here.

The reason why it might get drier in Africa is the opposite of what they say. The world is getting colder, the glaciers are growing which locks up water and less water is being evaporated over the 3/4 of the world's surface that is water which means less rain for Africa.

Just like no one needs heating in their homes or at work. See how long people will stay in your big buildings without A/C........ Ha! Ha!

The Antarctic Ice cap has been increasing in size for the last 30+ years...... The last two winters have been the coldest on record. LA just had the coolest Jun on record, Chicago just had the coolest spring on record.

All the ice in the Arctic could melt and it would cause no increases in sea levels. Just like the ice melting in your soda, does not cause the cup to over-flow........

Global change - YES, global warming is BS, just like most of BHO policies.......

Yeah, just like Bush saved the world from his daddy's nemesis, Saddam Hussein.

Hide your conservative heads in the sand as usual.

AC- You have it partially right. The Arctic sea ice melting will not raise sea levels. But you forget Greenland, arctic Canada, Siberia, and Antarcticia. The ice is very deep and it is on land. So yes sea levels will rise significantly!

The interesting thing about that, Devil's Son, is that was one of Rush Limbaughs statements about the 'ice in the water glass' not raising sea levels, until someone reminded him of the ice over land.

The same problem, no science.

you are a moron, no need for air conditioners this summer in NY, has yet to hit 90

so when its hot is global warming, when its the coldest June since 1958 on the east coast its global warming..... what is it moron

Devil's Son,

You need to check the NOAA records on the ice levels. Glaciers throughout South America are increasing in size. Greenland and Canada do not come close to the size of Antarctica............. Also look at the active under-water volcanoes along the Gakkel Ridge, that were discovered to be active during the 1990's.....

The rise in temperatures that the Eco Nuts like to cite are AFTER the eruption of Mt St Helens. Which injected almost one cubic mile of dirt & ash into the atmosphere.

Check the sea level changes that have been recorded using the latest satellite data. Most areas in the Pacific are decreasing in level if you look at the total averages. Not just the areas that are experiencing beach erosion

What an idiot you are.

Ice caps on Mars are receding also. Somehow I don't think we have anything to do with that. How do you explain that?

kaycee,

i hate to tell you, but President Bush is no longer our president. teleprompter boy is now in the process of acting like a president. but when you have a radical leftist agenda and NO experience, then this is what you get. tax, spend, tax spend, tax spend. get the picture?

Yeah KC let all those senior citizens die of heat stroke...Oh wait...the health care plan takes care of that.

As someone who spent last summer in the desert I dare you to try to take my A/C, kc. One word of advice you might want to pack a lunch and check your medical coverages (see what it says under a$$ whooping).BTW I am currently in Germany where there is very little A/C (but it isn't 90+ for four months of the year,either).

Thanks for your service fred. Spent a tour in germany myself. Wonder how it's changed.

People who talk about the coldest June and the hottest May are confusing weather with climate. Weather is what happens in one place in a period of time. Climate is the net weather everywhere combined and over much much longer timespans. What happens in weather is unrelated to climate and cannot be used to prove or refute any argument about climate. Period.

When you talk about these things, it is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought ignorant, than to parrot propaganda and remove all doubt.

Chris,

Please explain. If "weather" is unrelated to "climate" then how did the scientists determine that we were having "global warming"? Do not the scientists take the weather temps from around the world and then compare them to previous years to determine that the climate is changing? Are you really trying to say that if the "weather" everywhere in the world would drop 15 degrees that the climate scientists would not use that "weather" information to tell the world that we are going to begin another ice age? Please expound on your statement because it does not make sense to me. While I agree that using one month or day somewhere in the world is not related to the overall data I do not see how one can say that "weather" is unrelated to climate.

The world's temprature has been falling since 2005, how much more cold weather will it take before the press admits "global warming" is bunk?

You are being fed a lot of crap.

You do realize New York City alone has somewhere around 30,000+ homeless people?

Hey Westernskies, where the hell are you getting your information? Maybe on the coldest night in January there are 5,000 people in shelters and the police by law are forced to put the homeless in shelters. Get your fact straight

THATS 500 MILLION DOLLARS , the liberal greenie weenies just spent! lmao ya , man they are such real people for the people, 8 new jets , initial expense and then... the upkeep and fuel, all in the name of the liberal green machine, lmao, wonder how they can Blame Bush for this one? hahaahah simpletons.

Its gonna happen, you can bet on it. The tried and true neocon terrorist tactics are working fine and dandy (Look at the tea-bagger parties and town hall mobs.). They have convinced Joe Middle Class that the sky is falling and they will be right back in next chance they get. It is gonna be a sad day when it comes. Any hope this country had of moving forward will be gone.

Kaycee: You're right, we don't "believe in" global warming. We also don't believe in the tooth fairy, unless we are near our little children. Since when has science become a belief? Either the facts are their and there is empirical evidence to support it or there isn't. The fact is that the "evidence" doesn't exist. You can "believe" all you want, but it won't make it so.

We will be growing tomatoes on the Moon at a profit by the time the Libs get the Whitehouse again!

So exactly what do neocons use to refute the evidence cited by scientists for global warming? Just claiming it isnt real doesnt count.

Wow! What logic.

Get back to Jr. High school science class. The one you apparently ditched.

I am a conservative. All I ask is that if you pass a bill on climate change please do not phase it in slowly. Please make it fully in force immediately. I really want once and for all you liberals to live with the consequences of your actions. If it is effective in 4-9 years then the next republican President will get stuck with the economic debacle to come. Much like Arnold in CA, eventually someone has to deal with the crap the liberals pass.

You better hope that anyone gets in besides Obama again, if he keeps going we will be standing in bread lines and useing horse and buggies again, but you can bet they wont go with out a meal or have to worry about transportation. The elite will have all they want. America will look like Medival England when they get through. Them high in their castle and us living in hovels.

neo-con bush-cheney.......neo-marxist obama-biden

Yes, bury your head in the sand and it all might go away!

I am with you 100% Thatsafirst. People Like Kacee however, will continue to buy the paper and the believe in the artificial crisis because they choose not to find the facts, but believe what ever the NYT tells them to believe. Poor gullible Kacee.

Gullible? That's the Limbaugh 'ditto-sheep' and Hannity followers stock in trade.

Science is something they flunked out of long ago.

But then who needs science when you have conservative 'giants' like these.

Fed UP,

I don't think that most far right conservatives have any right to say anything about being fed a bunch of stories on artificial crisis and threats simply because someone told them so without any facts to back those theories-terror threats, terrorist around every corner, WMD anyone...just a point to point out your own hypocrisy is all...

Kacee --- Al Gore took only 2 science courses in College. In the first he managed a "D" and in the other a "C+". Your global warming science guru is a scientific moron. There are tens of thousands of American high school students each year that know more science than he.

I hear you Fed Up....I really wish people wouldn't just believe everything that they hear. and investigate for themselved! We are only be told one side. You are right.....the earth is cooling (for 10 years)..

The main thing about the green movement is the money that Al Gore is raking in...from 2M to cool 200M not a bad business. Shoot the sky is the limit with CAP and TRADE...strange though...he leaves his OUTSIDE LIGHT ON and he is still flying his plane, right????

Of course, that's why the antarctic ice floes are breaking off and the glaciers are receding at record rates.

Science has never been one of the conservative Republican's strongpoints-----------just politics.

I have a BS in Science so I have read a few "science" textbooks in my day. There is a reason that Einstein's theory of relativity is called a theory and not a law. In the early 20th century physicists found out that certain parts of relativity refuted Newtons law of gravity. Henceforth, everything was a theory not a law because down the line someone might discover something that can overturn a law. So even in Science things are not static. There is a good book: Lies, damned lies and science, I suggest you read it. Infering someone is ignorant about science because of their political afiliations makes for a faulty argument, and is the penaultimate of low moral ground.

Kacee,

Where are you getting this info????????? see YAHOO - NOAA Antarctic ice levels

The ice levels are at the highest level sense records have been recorded...... Along with one of the coldest winters on record.....

What are you reading?

http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/reportcard/atmosphere.html

Summary

Autumn temperatures are at a record 5º C above normal, due to the major loss of sea ice in recent years which allows more solar heating of the ocean. Winter and springtime temperatures remain relatively warm over the entire Arctic, in contrast to the 20th century and consistent with an emerging global warming influence.

The year 2007 was the warmest on record for the Arctic, continuing a general, Arctic-wide warming trend that began in the mid-1960s (Fig. A1).

Also and I am quoting" The recent dramatic loss of Arctic sea ice appears to be due to a combination of a global warming signal and fortuitous phasing of intrinsic climate patterns."http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/publications/search_abstract.php?fmContributionNum=3113

This is from the NOAA. Stop getting your info from Rush

Their are more Polar Bears than ever before, those pictures that you see are hijacked from a wildlife photographer and land was 20 feet away but they dont tell you that.

of course the earth is cooling...I know that those living in south dakot having to endure 90+ degree summers and increasingly warmer summers will agree with you...yes, that certainly is a cooling effect...upper 90s or lower 90s that were a plenty last year in areas where they shouldn't are not a trend of cooling...for some reason most of the country can boast that they are just as hot as Arizona during the summer...don't think that is a cooling trend in any way shape or form...maybe I am missing something...if there is reliable scientific info to show me the theory of the earth cooling I will gladly read it and go along as long as the originator of the theory isn't a zealot who will only believe his own conclusions and not go along with actual numbers as a true scientist should...

Here is a Studie Nasa has been doing on Global see temps. Shows the Oceans are cooling.http://www.examiner.com/x-1586-Baltimore-Weather-Examiner~y2009m1d21-Oceans-are-cooling-according-to-NASA

Hey, FedUp, I agree with you. I live in Arizona and this morning, in early August, it was 26 degrees farenheit, and last year in May we had 11 inches of that global warming. Recent excavations at La Brea Tar Pit in Los Angeles revealed fossilized remains of ice age mammals like mastedons - so we know that massive climate change has happened long before man used fossil fuels. Don't give me the "you don't know science" argument, because I have a Master's of Science degree.

This is just another farce to get cap and trade passed. I hope we wise up and stop it dead in its tracks. As Obama said "we are out of money." So why does the government insist on spending more and more? Even a drunken sailor stops when he doesn't have any money left. That makes our government dumber than a drunken sailor.

Just goes to show you that if all those mastedons had not been farting so much they would still be around. Damn CO2 farts. Ruin the entire earth.

i think these left wing loonies on here have a doctorate degree in STUPID.....

kaycee, you really need to check your facts and not get them from michael moore or al gore.

Back at u!!!! Obama does not ride in my car, This article is BS!!!

Jweave:

Please read the entire article and not just the opinion of the reporter. If you read the actual NASA article you see that the conclusion was based on faulty data obtained by the scientist.I quote"He was supposed to fly to Colorado that weekend to give a talk on “ocean cooling” to prominent climate researchers. Instead, he’d be talking about how it was all a mistake"http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/OceanCooling/page1.php

CBW ,again I quote from NASA

Satellites Confirm Half-Century of West Antarctic Warming

The Antarctic Peninsula juts into the Southern Ocean, reaching farther north than any other part of the continent. The southernmost reach of global warming was believed to be limited to this narrow strip of land, while the rest of the continent was presumed to be cooling or stable.

Not so, according to a new analysis involving NASA data. In fact, the study has confirmed a trend suspected by some climate scientists.
The new analysis shows that Antarctic surface temperatures increased an average of 0.22°F (0.12°C) per decade between 1957 and 2006. That's a rise of more than 1°F (0.5°C) in the last half century. West Antarctica warmed at a higher rate, rising 0.31°F (0.17°C) per decade. The results, published Jan. 22 in Nature, confirm earlier findings based on limited weather station data and ice cores

http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/warming_antarctica.html

My opinion is that we must distinguish between global warming and climate change, they are two different entities. The climate is going to change and that has nothing to do with human activities on the planet. Global warming is not just man made and also will continue to increase,regardless of what we do. It seems to me that we are accelerating this process at an alarming rate. I think that anything we do to improve our air and water qualities are a plus, for us as well as our children. I wish we could stop all the name calling and work together as human beings not just republicans or democrats.

Just got back from Alaska the first two weeks in June. Went to Mendenhall Glacier just outside Juneau. As you drive into the park there are signs along the way that show where the glacier was at various times in history. I talked to a park ranger (whose spectacular job, despite a Master's degree in Forestry was handing out pieces of glacier ice so people could see that they couldn't bite through even small pieces.) She waid that Mendenhall Glacier had been receding at about 200 feet a year since she had come there five years ago. This year it had already receeded 220 feet and was expected to move back 240+ feet. Her superiors had informed the rangers that there would be no further improvements because within five years it would not be possible to see the glacier from any vantage point other than the air and that the staff should start applying for other jobs. She said she asked her boss, "Where should I apply, Glacier National Park?" She thought that was pretty funny. (Glacier N.P. had 150 glaciers in 1850, now has 23, and is forecast to have none sometime between 2020 and 2025 [they keep moving that forecast closer every year].)

Also visited Glacier Bay. The whole bay was a glacier about a hundred years ago. The cruise line has been told that there will be no glaciers whose face will be visible from a ship in another 10 or so years.

Went to Misty Fjords -- on board was a Park Service naturalist who was counting harbor seals with a high-end GPS and a major pair of gyro-stabilized binoculars. He said that five years ago there were tens of thousands of harbor seals in Misty Fjords and that it was a calving place for thousands of humpback whales. On the trip hje saw no harbor seals and said that the whales no longer came there to calve because warming of the water had depleted their food supply.

I talked to pilots in Ketchikan who said that it is impossible to keep aeronautical maps updated with information on lakes and glaciers because many glacier-fed lakes are drying up and changing their shorelines and the glaciers are receding so fast that if you have been over an area in a couple of years they are difficult to use as landmarks. He also complained that he was a dog trainer for a couple of Iditarod sled racers and that everyone was afraid that the race would soon be cancelled for the first time for a lack of snow.

Went on the White Pass Railway to the Yukon. Along the way were miles and miles of abandoned show fences. The conductor said that there is no longer enough snow accumulation along the way to need them, though he did say that last year they had to take the snow plow out of the local park and use it for the first time in 20 years.

Polar bears in Alaska are declining so rapidly that there are expected to be none in ten years in the Alaska area. But that has apparently taken a bizarre twist according to some locals in Anchorage. The remaining polar bears are migrating southward and mating with grizzly bears (of which they are a subspecies). They are strange looking --- body like a grizzly but with a small head and larger paws. The coat is mottled with white and has a huge amount of white hair mixed in with the brown. They call them grolar bears and no one is quite sure if it is okay to hunt them or not.

In the Anchorage paper was an article about setting up a major transshipment terminal on Attu to be used by shipping to transit the northwest passage. When I was in school the northwest passage was a myth.

I am both glad I made the trip (things were beautiful), but I am saddened at what is happening. We are not leaving the world in very good shape for out children and grandchildren. I am afraid that future generations will come to hate our generation (I am 65) and the next couple for our lack of action.

CBWY

I am not searching for data,I am responding to claims from those who state that NASA or NOAA have studies to prove the earth is cooling, I am quoting from those reliable sources. I feel it is a great injustice when people do not fully research their claims before posting. I also think that you are searching for data to support your pre-determined conclusion, as you must agree for every conclusion I find, you, can find 10 other scientists and vise-versa. For your claim of the sea level rise or ice shelf collapse, I never stated either of those for the antartic. I stated that surface temperatures are on the rise, proving that we do not have enough scientific data to support either claim. So we can agree to disagree. One fact is true, I agree that we are rushing into solutions before having all the facts. I just wish we could stop all the name calling and work together to find the Correct solution. As I stated before I do not think that man is a major contributor,just a small fraction. I do feel that any improvement in air and water quality is a plus.

Just like so many of the issues of the day,rushing to try a quick fix may not solve or even help the problem.I agree more studies need to be made and we should continue to reduce emissions by using effective technologies.The problem is so many people are passionate about so many subjects we run into dead ends.No windmills because birds may fly into them,no nuclear because the Hollywood crowd can't admit the technology has improved,no hydroelectric because a fish might get sucked through a dam.We need to step back and look at the big picture.If folks keep blocking solutions to known issues,we'll keep spinning our wheels.I believe the issue may be hyped by hucksters but I have always believed in reducing pollution and conserving resources.I hope the progress we have made on those fronts isn't lost to the chicken littles of the "climate change" brigade.

wow you just used used a couple of different political and philosophical school of thoughts as an interchangeable and the same...a Marxist is not the same as a liberal-please read up on what a liberal is and what a Marxist is...also the only neo one I know is Neo Nazism which is also different than the other two...don't mix things that are opposite of one another and try to pass it off as all of them being the same or comparable...

I only put out there the mixture that encompasses all of you who voted for Obama. So I know exactly what I did too bad you were not smart enough to pick that up rather than leave your elitist drivel.

There is clear scientific evidence that the Earth is warming and that man's activities are the cause. Scientists have been concerned for years and now military planners are as well. When is the message going to sink in?

Que,

military planners are concerned because they were prodded by Congress in 2008 by Hillary and Warner. The military planners were not concerned until prodded by Congress. REad the story please.

Any expert that does not agree is slicenced . Does any one remember History? I know they do not teach it anymore but we had famines and floods and dust bowls and earth quakes and fires and all that you here about for as long as there has been people on this earth. It passed and then you cycle around again. This is nothing but an excuse for GE and Goldman Sachs and Al Gore to bilk us out of billions. Does any one remember the 70s when we were in a globel cooling and we were going to freeze to death. Just like Y2K it didnt happen.

Susan...correct...50 and 60 years ago people were dying of starvation in Africa due to droughts and bad weather and they still are.....but, I felt then (and still feel) that they mostly died because of the criminal behaviour of their leaders.......but dems say that the real reason is that I drive too much.

Absolutely true! I drove thru Missoula, MT yesterday and the temp at 3:30 in the afternoon was 49 degrees....Farenheight!!!!!!!!!!!!! The last three years have been the coolest, wetest and snowiest in decades!

Life 100 years ago was tough, and we had major threats such as Japan, and Germany of that time, the USSR.

200 years ago people died at forty travelling by horse across the country that had no roads.we had other large countries to tend with.

300 years ago, the superpowers of the day sailed in wooden ships and died in hurricanes.

TODAY, we fear a hard life, and loss of such comforts like canned food and the TV. we fear walking we fear helping out to get the food stored, its getting scarey to think we may live like we did 300 years ago, my garden mostly died this year due to massive rain and today in August it feels like mid October.

It will be intresting, and we are to late to reverse the damages, 1960 was the year to globally limit carbon. like a jar full of germs that split each minute they are screwed. they figure out that they should limit population when they go from 50% to 100% in 60 seconds...that last minute. thats when we figure out things too.

Why does BHO's half sister, that was born in Indonesia also have a Hawaii birth certificate????

DM ~ Do you hate all black men or is it just this one man who has accomplished so much more than you could ever hope to accomplish, who is more intelligent than you could ever hope to be and is working harder than any President in history to try to put this damaged country back together after the last disasterous 8 years? Do you have any idea how crazy, demented, insane and out of touch you sound?

Arizona Grandma,

What is BHO's GPA in college or what is his GCT???????? Opps, sorry that info is still sealed. Why is this????????

this issue is ridiculous...if you're born to a US citizen you are automatically a US citizen even if the birth took place on Mars...lets stop with this is he a natural born citizen, what passport and what the GPA was...what does GPA have to do with anything anyhow...why all of a sudden the right wants to know someone's GPA...what was your GPA in college-that is if you went to college (not an insult, many people choose not to go as it may not be for them and that is more than ok)

This is a dead Horse the Man is an American. He is a Marxist Socialist as well and he hates what the country was founded on. Proof to that is his actions which speak louder then is words and speeches. These are fact the who not a American argument is a stupid and argument as the loose change wackos out there who think Bush blew up the Twin Towers.

i knew it was just a matter of time before these left-wing loonies pulled the race card. it never fails. we are not supposed to have a single question about this man, because he is part black. well let me rest all your fears of racism. i only doubt the white part of him, the black part is obviously off limits to scrutiny.

Aleksiza,

3.85 after eight years.......... 4 degrees My father had degrees in electrical, nuclear, & theology. My daughter chemical & biological, and my daughter-in-law chemical & law degrees.

I stopped working full time when I was 55, so what is your measure of happiness???? Work does not define ones life, it is what you give back, that counts.....

No wonder you have no job.

Kacee,

Thanks to the last eight years of prosperity, I don't need to work for at least four years. By that time, the jobs should come back and I'll return to work. I'm having fun right now watching the Obama supporters lose their jobs, run out of unemployment benefits, see their taxes go up and pay more for their utilities and groceries.

Have fun!

At others expense.

Pitiful stuff.

Have fun! At others expense.

Kacee,

Contrary to liberal thinking, not everyone who are financially secured did so "at other's expense". Jobs were plentiful the last eight years, and I took advantage by working on average 60 hours a week and many weekends. I knew the unpopular Bush would usher in a Democrat President, so I put in as many hours as I could before the recession which normally accompany the final year of any presidency came upon us. I assumed the new Democrat President would be a tax and spend leader, resulting in a prolonged recession which would take years to recover. I guessed right and glad I did. The Jimmy Carter years taught me well.

Hey 6sp: I just set my air conditioner at 67 in my 5,000 sq. ft house. Of course my pool is a warm 88 (propane going full blast) on a cool summer night in New York

6sp,

Was that Big Foot in the woods, or was that size 22 carbon footprint yours?

The air conditioner was a great idea. I am wearing my long sleeves and a hat with the AC on 55 degrees.

coolest summer in years...come to AZ where we have had some pretty high temperatures even for us...have you been watching the temperatures in the north states that should not have temperatures in the 90s at all...ask them if this was the coolest summer

aleksiza.....and we had one of the coldest winters for a long time......that all proves nothing....not many people say that the weather doesnt change....people just say that it always has and that it always will change no matter what we do......get rid ot the we are killing earth mentality......I can remember when the US had much worse polution than it does now.

ROFL..... I Drive a Mustang Cobra I put 4.10 gears in it and my gas Mileage went to **** but it made it fast as heal 1/4 mile time. Any way try looking into changing the gears out M8 good luck in you crusade.

J.A you are so right the republicans are boom and the democrats are bust years for this country they have every the sky is falling B.S reason to break the economy and destroy the USA with every Pinky and the Brain idiotic idea to blood suck the nation.

You have to wonder how did the vilkings who had no cars or factories cause the little ice age they had in Greenland.

The democrats count on people who are to uneducated to do any reaserch or to hypnotized by their retoric to think for themselves.

chicken littles.

You need to put some huge honkin tires on that F-250 and make sure you have a camper or at least a top put on the bed to add some drag.

Finally, someone I can completely agree with...a person whose goal is to increase the size of their carbon footprint...I'm shooting for a size 18, just like Shaq.

Maybe you could under-inflate your tires and only drive in reverse.

Mr Job seeker ...shame on you. What are you doing? Trying to put us into another ice -age? Throw out a couple drogue chutes.

Hey, isn't that the name of the blockbuster movie coming out in November? It's premise is that the Mayan calendar predicted the end of the world, 2012.

Lots of destruction according to the movie trailers.